24/02/10 – Toronto – Townhomes

BradW

1. The thick wall which bisects the living room and master. Most of what is wrong here stems from that wall.
2. Northern orientation only.
3. The master bathroom – too many fixtures not enough space.

Murray

I went to Google street view, and, while not 100% sure, I think the unit faces an interior courtyard/pedestrian mall (this redeems it somewhat in my opinion). There is underground parking.

Mid America Mom

John and Matthew that inadvertent 0 score got your attention heh? Not too far off LOL!

So you asked for the THREE WORST things about this project. What a hard decision to make- I do not know where to start from my list.

I decided to concentrate on the space with the understanding that the thick wall on both floors is load bearing.

1. Organization. That wall is horrible but then they made it worse by trying to ignore it.

Picture the brochure (minus my comments).

2. The DEN. For those times when you have to work from home there is a (closed in and dark) Den complete with its own (strange corner) closet, (noisy) laundry, and (smelly) half bath.

3. The Living Room. Come (fill your home with cold Toronto air and mud from your boots) into the (narrow) spacious living space after a hard day of work. Take in the waning (non existent) light of the day while relaxing in a comfortable (no room for a couch so here is one of two) chair.

I look forward to hearing what others have to say. MURRAY what do you feel is most wrong with this townhome?

MollyK

First, hello to BradW…missed you last week.
Second, this plan is a real stinker. My overall impression is that a combination of orientation and the “wall” in the living/dining area and Master bedroom create a lot of the problems. If you suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder you will not want to live in one of these townhomes.
1.North orientation…without other windows this unit will suffer from darkness much of the time. This makes it necessary to install more light fixtures to improve illumination in all spaces…more fixtures means more electricity. You get the picture.
2.The wall in the living/dining space squeezes an already small space into even less usable space. In the master bedroom, it cuts off any light that might reach the den. (Don’t be fooled into thinking the glazed wall will help.) It also makes the area in front of the glazed wall useless. Placement of a bed will be tight with minimal space to walk on either side. On both floors circulation is impeded by the addition of the bulky wall.
3.The kitchen is tiny with circulation problems caused by the location of the stairs. (Frankly, I’ve seen bigger kitchens in a ‘Barbie’ Townhouse.) According to the drawing (look closely at the arrows), the kitchen’s dimensions (10’2″x10’2″) include the cabinets which I assume are the industry standard 2 feet deep. How do you move around comfortably, especially if anyone else is in the kitchen?
I just had to add that with the small living area you will need the den as a guest ‘spill-over’ when you entertain. Luckily, one of the amenities at BLISS Condos is a “party room”…a multi-purpose entertainment area with kitchen, etc. You’re gonnna need it.

MollyK

M.A.M.
That was the biggest laugh I’ve had so far this week. It’s pretty sad that we can so easily tear apart a floorplan that someone designed as livable. The den description is a riot. Actually, I think conceptually the den is fine…I don’t even mind that the area is open as you come onto the landing. I couldn’t figure out the closet..it must be there in case you have to put someone up for a while and they need a closet and a floor to sleep on.
The living room…well, it’s a riot too. Do you think one of those chairs could be a recliner? You could place it at the head of a small dining table and just rotate it for dual-usage in both areas.

Mid America Mom

MollyK
LOL
yep thinking the Joey and Chandler two recliners (they had a table hockey game but I think no real table except for a coffee table)… but then is there enough space to recline them and walk around?

MollyK

M.A.M.
What a hoot…I can see those two recliners in their apartment right now. Makes me laugh outloud.
I’ve been pondering a way to get a table for eating in that area. Here’s an idea: make use of the bulky wall by putting a large piece of artwork on it. BUT the artwork acts as a table when necessary. The artwork is hinged on the bottom and has some spring-loaded mechanism to assist in folding it back onto the wall. It could work (maybe with some engineering). AND you might even be able to position a recliner so that when the artwork ‘table’ is down you simply swivel your chair around and eat. Huh!…What do you think?
I know we’re poking fun at the situation but I’ve actually thought about how to use a similar setup in these small floorplans. It’s kinda like the bed that folds into a closet. It’s form and function.

Terri

Three Worst things:
1. North Exposure.
2. No entry (a door is not an entry)
3. Stairs in kitchen.(Here we have a perfect example of how NOT to incorporate a staircase.)

Mid America Mom

Hi everyone. MollyK you had me thinking. In my internet searches I have come across something just like you described but cannot seem to find it.

I thought it may be on a favorite site of mine… you may not know of it. It is great if you are thinking about or dealing with LIVING in a SMALL space.

Lots to see. Showcase lots of interior design like furniture, found objects, decorative arts, …. they visit sites of actual homes and apartments that are small… storage and furniture solutions… ETC. I bet you will like it too.

Apartment Therapy- http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/

Mid America Mom

MollyK

M.A.M.
Thanks for the website. I enjoy looking at innovative designs using space-saving features.

Terri

I finally got to John and Matthew’s video. Looking at that drawing of the island in front of the staircase put me in mind of a project BradW once put up (or possibly Louis?) where the counter in the kitchen was incorporated into the stairs. Does anyone remember when that was posted? I’ll take a look in archives now…

Terri

I didn’t mean to infer that one of our Slow Homers designed that countertop/stair–it was a link to another designer’s finished project. I can’t seem to figure out why were were discussing and posting stairs. It’s not in the Room by Room or Design Detail. Oh well, just thought it was appropriate to this crazy townhouse.

Wayne

What is there to like about this floor plan.

1.The northern lighting
2.The overall layout of the space with the stairway. If you cannot afford an engineer to move the load bearing wall why would you not at least utilize the wall into the stairway?
3.There is nothing like doorways and walkways into a space like the living room which makes it impossible to position furniture.

Jodi J

where to start!

1) Connection to exterior space – terrible! Thw only windows on the unit are on the front, north facing side. No natural lighting at the back of the unit. Northern exposure makes for evry limited natural lighting of the unit. It would be very dark and cavernous!

2) No entry space – walk directly from the exterior into the tiny living/dining room, and can see straight through into the kitchen.

3) Circulation – again, terrible! Once you work in a circulation path into the living/dining area, there is next to no room to place furniture (table and seating arrangement). Forced to walk directly through the kitchen to access the staircase, wasted space in master bedroom currently serving as some sort of “entry” corridor” – what is the point of the protruding wall? Creates awkward, unuseable corner adjacent to the staircase.

John Brown

Hi Terri,
I remember that project too. I try to find it in the archives.

margo

1) The kitchen is super sprawled-out, creating a ton of wasted space at a high cost.

2)There’s no bathroom on the main floor, and double bathrooms on the upper floor. With two up there, I would at least expect that ONE of them would be for the private use of the master, but both are public. What’s the point?

3)The stairs go right into the master bedroom. Despite a short wall, the master bedroom and bath have little privacy.

John Brown

I second Molly K’s welcome back to BradW. We missed your thoughtful insight.

I agree with all of the comments about the stairs, particularly, given the discussion we had yesterday about how important stair placement is to the success of the rest of the unit.

Corey

Well, from the list of thing wrong with this house, ranging from the northern exposure to the enormous amount of unusable surfaces within the spaces I feel the three worst design aspects are;
1. the entry – you enter off the patio, which actually shows no way accessing that, directly into the living space. There is no actual transitional space for someone to enter the house.
2. the bathrooms – for starters, they are so small and awkwardly laid out that you can’t even function in them without sliding in and closing the door behind you. But, a bigger issue I think is the fact that both washrooms are on the same level! I just don’t understand…
and,
3. the circulation – the bedroom alone has more circulation than the rest of the floor and makes most of the bedroom space completely useless. Also the stairs are located inside, not beside, the kitchen.
I love the irony of the project title though!

Matt KB

1. only gets diffuse north light. which is not necessarily a bad thing except that it’s Toronto so you will get no solar heat gain in the winter and lose a lot of heat through thermal conductivity in of the north glazing.

2. not entrance to speak of

3. due to the spatial organization the back of the house gets almost not natural light.

Sarah W

1. The exposure – the kitchen and “den” must be very gloomy in the winter! Well, all the time, really…

2. The weird little closet in the den. What’s the point?

3. The side-by-side bathrooms on the second floor – I don’t think it’s wholly necessary to have two (or 1.5, I guess) bathrooms, especially on the same level. Also, the location of the “den” half bath is uncomfortable… if this were a home office, would a client want to use that bathroom? No! Yuck.

I also agree with many of the other posts and their choices! It was hard to choose only three!

Sarah W.

BradW

Thanks for the welcome back – much better than the one provided by Canadian Customs!

Vickie

1. Bad circulation.
Although having stairs in the back of the unit could be beneficial, I don’t think this is the case in this particular unit. You have to travel INTO the work area of the kitchen to arrive at the base of stairs. Your path is then, obstructed by the door possibly swung open from the den, at the top of the stairs, followed by a view into the bathroom, and an awkward movement around the wall.

As mentioned above
2. Orientation.
The only windows are north facing – little amount of natural light. To make matters worst, the partition wall between living / dining and kitchen (which doesn’t line up with anything in particular in the space), blocks the minimal amount of natural light that could possibly enter. Same instance on the second floor where the partition wall in bedroom and the door from the den, block out any possible natural light to enter in to the den/ study room.

Tough last decision but -
3. Bathrooms
The two bathrooms on ONE floor and NONE on the main floor is just – bad design. Tell me, why would someone design that? There must be a reason?!

Tom E

I too, would interested in seeing the staircase Terri talks about. I like innovative space saving ideas.

A link to some other space saving staircases

http://www.stairporn.org/category/space-saving-stairs/

John Brown

Tom E,
Thanks for the link to the stair porn site. It is always irreverently interesting.

Lacey

Hello,
As mentioned in the video, the northern exposure poses various problems inside the space, so that’s my first of the three things that I believe are the worst aspects. My top 3 are:
1. North Facing Exposure: The lack of natural light entering the space has effects on the overall feeling of the space as well as its potential energy conservation, or consumption in this matter. A more effective orientation could possibly take advantage of solar energy.
2. The entry: My eyes scanned the floor plan for the areas that there may be an entrance, and couldn’t find one. Once identified as having to access through the patio, the ‘entry’ was immediately top 3. It seems as though the developer felt that the patio can double as the ‘entrance space’, and has neglected to resolve an actual entry once opening the door. I don’t feel this is an entry at all.
3. Circulation: Although at first glance the design isn’t convoluted, the paths in which one navigates through the interior are awkward. The staircase also being located in the kitchen is one of the major problems, while at the top of the stairs one is positioned to either see into the master bedroom, or the second bathroom. Not to mention that the washer dryer is located in the corner of the den, which is the most likely place that family members would likely be irritated by excess noise (other than in the bedrooms). The circulation is just awkward.

Laura K

there is no entry. The big thick wall in living space and bedroom is probably supposed to be defining the space and creating circulation but really is not doing that at all. It looks awkward and oversized. The dining space is not defined. there is wasted space in the kitchen. The bathrooms are both on same level side by side but one is in a den which could be big enough to be a second bedroom, it is weird that guests would have to go in the den to get to bathroom which seems private. Wasted space in the bedroom near the door. big front porch. Not good natural lighting to all the spaces. kitchen has no natural light coming to it.

Dom.

1. The fact that there is know entrance is very bothersome. As was mentioned above the idea of coming home with snow on you’re boots and an arm full or groceries and opening the door directly in to the living room just seems like an unpleasant mess.

2. The partition wall between the Kitchen and dining/living room doesn’t make any sense. It creates a very awkward relationship between the two spaces.

3. Having two bathrooms on the second level in a one bedroom unit and no bathroom on the main level does not make sense.

Paula

Is it possible to fix something like this?

Part 2 – Completed Design ( video )

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