26/02/10 – Toronto – Townhomes

Posted on: February 26th, 2010 | 27 Comments

Overview Townhome Winner ( video )

Design Project submission from MollyK (JPG)
Design Project submission from BradW (JPG)

  • MollyK

    Good morning everyone,
    I’m sure many of you are still in bed. Being on the east coast has the advantage of viewing the website early. But it also means that I’m in bed when some of the conversation occurs the night before. So I do have a couple of messages to add to Thursday’s blog:
    BradW
    Thank you for the final comments about dimension yesterday. Every tidbit of information I get is put in a notebook that I refer to as I explore the site and the exercises. I’m not the most creative person (probably more technical) so I “steal” ideas in hopes that I will become better at whatever it is that I’m doing. Thanks again for your guidance.
    Jenny
    What a cool idea for the air lock. I’m always tickled to learn new things. I just realized (I mean literally as I type) that many restaurant chains in the US use these air locks when you first enter the building. Holy Moly, I had no idea that’s what they were called. One more piece of trivia to put in my pocket. Thanks!
    Townhouse Winner Review:
    I am not ashamed to say I did not vote for 968 Queen West…it came in second (Silver Medal) for me. But upon further review this morning I thought it was a good choice. My number 1 positive point was the overall effecient use of space. The design made the most of the 1300+ sq. ft., with careful consideration of windows to maximize light. Positive point #2 was the sleeping areas. Both bedrooms were decently sized, had a window, and modest bathroom space. That was really impressive since the bedrooms in townhomes can look deceivingly big but in reality have very little room to move in. Positive point #3 was the abundance of outdoor living. Although I think the top-floor terrace would be more useful in a warmer climate (like LA) it certainly is a plus overall. One criticism I have to share is the kitchen. I commend the architect for placing a window in the kitchen but I simply could not bring myself to endorse this particular use of a “U” shape. However, in fairness I understand that using the space wisely probably led to the kitchen shape and placement.
    I have viewed John and Matthew’s video on the winner and learned more about building facade. Thanks for pointing out how the exterior blended in well with the surrounding buildings…something for me to think about for future scoring.

  • John Brown

    Molly K,

    Thanks for the extensive comment. It is great to open up the site over my morning coffee and see that the discussion has already started. I like your idea of a notebook. That could be very handy. In terms of resources I should also say that the first Slow Home book is moving towards its release. This is the one that the group helped edit just before Christmas. I will keep everybody informed as we get closer to the printing being completed.

    I also appreciate your comments on the winning project.

  • MollyK

    Good morning John,
    Hope your coffee is hot and satisfying! You should plan on some way to sell us committed Slowhomers an autographed copy of the book. I have been wondering about its printing time. Sometimes when I’m perplexed over an exercise or scoring criteria for a floorplan I say to myself…”I sure could use that SlowHome book right now.”
    One other quick note…have you received the AtHome magazine yet? I hope it didn’t get lost in the US postal system.

  • Murray

    It’s great to be able to actively participate in this collective learning project with ideas and observations so generously offered and shared by so many people. Kudos to our fearless leaders – John, Matthew and Carina. Thanks.

  • John Brown

    Molly K,
    The magazine arrived in our office yesterday. We are going to put it up on the site today. Thanks again for sending it to me. I won’t dare predict the printing time so as not to disappoint but the book is on its way. We more anxious to get it out than anybody. That is a great idea about autographing copies for the loyalists!

  • Anonymous

    Our winner must have been a winner because it is all sold/leased! I bet they wish they could have done more.

    *Corey posted another idea on the townhome redesign. Never occurred to me to try to put the TV there.

    I am curious to know what you folks think. Many of the older apartment buildings I have been checking online here in Toronto (in case we move in town) have a L for the dining and living space wrapped around a closed kitchen… and TV placement is similar.

    Thoughts anyone?

  • Mid America Mom

    OOPS forgot to fill my name in.

    Mid America Mom (formerly known as Mid Mo)

  • John Brown

    Mid America Mom,

    Thanks for bringing up Corey’s late entry. I am not so sure about the television placement. I think that it would feel strange to have the back of the tv facing into the kitchen and there seems to be a conflict with food prep.

    In terms of the L shaped living and dining space, you are right that it is very typical in houses designed in the post war era. It might make you feel better to know that it is based on a precedent of California modern ranch bungalows and case study houses. Depending on the proportions of the rooms, I think they can be quite effective.

  • Terri

    The winning townhome was my pick of the week because of its relative efficiency of space as well as a strong connection to the outdoors. It benefits from being an end unit, of course, providing a kitchen window in what could have been a rather cut off space. It’s facing north, but that window will still make a huge difference.

    As MollyK points out, though, this particular U-shape doesn’t quite work.If the entry were placed at the powder room end, the dining area could have more easily been beside the window. As it is now, a table would be in the way of traffic to and from the kitchen.

    But getting back to the positives… The bedrooms/bathrooms are efficient and decently sized spaces. I liked the way the powder room and laundry were divided into components (sink. toilet and washer/dryer stack) and each fit into the “utility” space (furnace is here too)under and beside the stairs.

    The main plus, other than a good entry, is the dual terraces on ground and roof levels. There’s even a staircase that nicely connects these two levels. I realize that the need for stairs from the roof is probably a fire regulation, but at least it’s been incorporated in such a way as to provide some street privacy for the ground terrace as well as direct access to what would be the sunniest outdoor space.

  • Laura K

    [img]townhouseforstudents.jpg[/img][img]1_townhouseforstudents.jpg[/img]

    Townhouse floor plan revised

  • Marilyn

    I am familiar with the location of the winning townhouse and it is well situated being around the corner from very busy Queen Street. One room that I would eliminate is the master bedroom ensuite bath in favour of a light-filled nook for an office.

  • Matt KB

    [img]townhouseforstudentslayout21.jpg[/img]

    Here is my solution to yesterdays Design problem. cheers.

  • Terri

    Ooops! John and Matthew, I just watched your video commentary on the Queen Street townhouse, and I guess I misinterpreted the stairs on the plan. So the unit isn’t at street level–even better. Even if you have to go up a couple of flights of inside stairs to get to the rooftop terrace, it’s great that there are two outdoor spaces to enjoy.

  • MollyK

    Hello again,
    Terri,
    I think your observation about the dining table is right on. I struggled with many elements on the first floor living area and that was a big issue with me. The circulation around the floating table and the “U” kitchen were key reasons why I didn’t vote for Queen Street. Thanks for the validation…
    M.A.M,
    I didn’t see Corey’s plan until you mentioned it. That t.v. gets an “A” for creative use of space. But I think watching t.v. while others may be working in the kitchen might be stimulus overload.
    With regards to your L living/dining space, please forgive me but I just can’t get a visual on it. Could you or John (or somebody) post a picture or website with a floorplan so I could see it. I’m very interested in responding to your comment. Thanks

  • John Brown

    Marilyn,
    Thanks for the comment. It is great to hear from someone who is “on the ground” and is actually familiar with one of the projects.

  • Sarah W

    [img]totownhouseconverted.jpg[/img]

    Here is my solution for the design project yesterday. This one was definitely tricky; I’m interested to see what John’s solution was!
    Basically, I closed off the back entrance, added another coat closet (since people coming from the garage will probably be wearing coats too..), rotated the steps and put the powder room & pantry in that little block. After adding the pantry on, I’m worried about the tight squeeze entering the kitchen from the back, and I think the dining area needs more work.
    Cheers!
    Sarah W.

  • Mid America Mom

    Stepped away and thought of a few things.

    This week the community did not comment on having a strong opinion of distaste for the finalists… at least not yet :) I think that is a feat!

    I did not care for the six 50 more so that it screamed “LOFT” at me (preference). The guest bedroom without space at the window and the galley kitchen were concerns. Those angles in the Tridel condo were OK, that was a nice segmented entry, and I love the outdoor space. As for the winner… Being a partial? sunken space on the main floor I like that placement for a kitchen. Yes I Love U shape kitchens (a mantra perhaps). The refrigerator is in the correct spot and the window has a sink. Minor point on that design is they should have shifted that window more toward the front and switched the sink with the dishwasher, since most people are right handed. The small hall on the second floor was a great feat. Definately pleased with this as Toronto’s Slowest townhome.

    *MollyK here is a kind of apartment I was referred to- http://www.torontorentals.com/111Raglan/2Bdrm/houseTour.html

  • MollyK

    M.A.M.
    I can’t believe the things I’ve learned this week. The room layout is similar to that in my home, except the dining area is a breakfast nook in my home…my dining room in on the other side of the kitchen.(In the floorplan my dining room would be on their front porch.) There are other differences but I won’t bore you with the details. I can tell you that I like that separation at times since the living room can get loud when the t.v. is on! The kitchen in your plan is more secluded than in my own home. It will allow you to listen to music while you cook, keep smells from creeping into other areas, or talk to someone without others listening in. The down side is that you can’t see into the living area to see which kid “started it.” Overall, the circulation looks good as well as the potential for furniture placement. Not bad at all.

  • MollyK

    Sarah W
    Just a couple of comments on your redesign. I like the idea of the garage entry being hidden. I might have put the powder room door facing into the living area for easier access by guests. However, as it is the long wall in the living area could be a great place for built-ins.

  • Terri

    M.A.M.
    That L-plan for kitchen,dining,living is pretty much the standard apt layout. I’ve lived in at least a half dozen like it. Usually the kitchen ends up feeling a little too small and cut off from the living room, unless the wall between the rooms is opened up with an opening above the counter.

    Sarah W,
    I think your idea to hide the powder room off the kitchen is good. (That was my first idea too.) The only problem I see in your drawing is there’s not enough space between the end of the kitchen counter and the corner of the powder room. It needs to be at least 2ft10in, though 3 ft would be better. It would be a high traffic area because of the back entry, so ample space would be needed.

  • Laura K

    [img]2_townhouseforstudents.jpg[/img]

    townhouse attempt to post 2

  • MollyK

    I agree with Terri about the kitchen being cut off. I have the opening over the counter in my home which I’ve found has pros and cons. If I was staying in that type of apartment for a limited period of time and I had children, depending on their age, I might want a little separation at times. That floorplan wouldn’t be ideal for an extended stay.

  • jim baer

    [img]100226westown.jpg[/img][img]100226cobblestone.jpg[/img]

    john & matthew

    it has been a crazy week so i am only now getting a chance to catch up and respond. and i wanted to comment on the stair discussion.

    while i agree that the stairs are critical in townhouse layouts, i am concerned that some might walk away with the notion that some stair shapes are inherently good or bad concerning townhouse design. the examples and comments in the video suggest that the straight stair is a problem, the “returned” stair is always pretty good and the “u” shaped stair is …ta da.. the very best!

    the issue with the straight run stair plan is not the stair, but its placement. if pushed further back into the plan, it will work on the second floor and a front bedroom is possible. i have illustrated :)

    also, the sort of “returned” shaped stair in the second example is not really the problem with the plan and does not really separate the front and back spaces. again..i have illustrated :) the issue with this unit is the crazy entrance next to the garage, the circulation through the mechanical room….oops, i mean recreation room and then the long straight stair that runs across the first floor.

    so really..the issue is the placement of the stairs and the organization of the spaces around them….which may not have come across.

  • Mid America Mom

    Thank you John, MollyK, and Terri for feedback on the L living dining configuration.

    Sounds like something I should be open to, with reservations. I started to find sites and leasing companies but I may go one step further and bookmark potential units for rental.

  • Murray

    [img]totownhouse06.jpg[/img][img]totownhouse13.jpg[/img]

    I decided to try a few stair options (sorry Matthew). I felt that the main problems were the garage and the stairs in conjunction. I couldn’t change the garage so I did try changing the stairs.

    I tried a lot of styles of staircases in a lot of different parts of the house. Through trial and error I decided that it had to be the straight run. All others took up too much room. I realize this may compromise what goes on upstairs, but since the assignment was only the main floor to heck with the rest of the house.

    I was interested to read Jim Baer’s comments (above) and look at his sketches. I came up with a second option based on his thought that a straight run further back in the plan could work. I moved it further and further into the plan until it was pretty much at the back of the house. And I did include MAM’s banquette.

    It’s been an very informative week for me re: stairs, and everybody’s input has really helped. I’d like to thank you all with a gift of music. With sincere apologies to Joni Mitchell …

    I’ve looked at stairs from both sides now
    From up and down, and still somehow
    It’s stairs illusions I recall
    I really don’t know stairs at all.

  • Mid America Mom

    Murray- Logged in and saw these two reconfigures. You made me think that if we could play with that stair in front the world is more open!

    I like the shared entry – why have duplication when not necessary? Oh This also is an opportunity to do a shared stair to the basement and second floor.

  • Jenny

    Hey Slowhomers,

    I just had a slowhome “fest” as I haven’t had the time this week to interact on a daily basis. How jam packed was this week? From Murray’s comments about stairs and all the conversation that ensued to “the good, the bad and the ugly” of Toronto townhouse design and all the different design options that people had. I think we have all learned quite a lot. I even liked the link to stair porn ;). The thing I like most about the slow home philosophy is that it is all quite practical stuff (could be a Canadian thing) without too much emphasis on a particular aesthetic. You could make these places look any way you like according to your personal taste as long as the “good bones” are there. Thanks everyone for the contributions you make that reach out to us architects that sometimes feel we are a voice in the wilderness. See you next week!