An In Depth Look At Apt/Lofts In Denver

Posted on: April 22nd, 2010 | 21 Comments

This is Day 93 of the Slow Home Project, and we need you to join us in our quest to evaluate the design quality of houses in nine North American cities in nine months. This week we are analyzing apartments/lofts in Denver and today we are going to be doing an in-detail review of the kitchen question on the Slow Home Test.

For today’s “In Detail” episode we will be looking specifically at kitchen design in apartment/loft projects. In a Slow Home, a kitchen is considered to be well designed if it has a compact work-triangle, continuous counters, sufficient storage as well as a reasonable number of appliances.

Generally, there are three types of kitchen layouts that work well in apartment/loft projects. These are examples of plans where the kitchen layout is good.

The first is an island layout.

The second is a “U”shaped layout.

And, the third is a peninsula or galley kitchen.

Many apartment/loft kitchens’ are badly designed. In Denver, there seems to be the same type of mistakes being made over and over again. These kitchens should not score the point on the Slow Home test. Some of the most prevalent common pitfalls include:

1. Too much floor space – view from dining into kitchen.

2. A large “L” shaped kitchen with no island becomes a problem when the dining table is placed.

3. Too large of a kitchen for the size of the unit.

4. Too small of a kitchen located in the center of the plan.

5. An island that is too small to function properly.

6. An awkwardly shaped island that is poorly located.

7. An island that floats in the middle of the living space and interferes with the dining and living spaces.

We want to hear what you think of these examples, as well as what you think are some alternate examples of good and bad apartment/loft kitchens. Post your examples and comments and let’s have a discussion!

Don’t forget to keep finding and evaluating as many apartment/loft projects in the Denver area for the Slow Home project. A big thank you to everyone who has posted this week so far! Join us tomorrow for our weekly wrap up, a discussion about the design project submissions and our announcement of who
the “Slow Homer” of the week is!

  • Terri

    Matthew,
    I appreciate your detailed review of good and bad kitchen design. I’ve always had problems deciding how to use the island, and your point about making it serve a function besides a glorified table really hit home for me.
    John,
    Your point about open U-kitchens facing the dining area (or living) also reinforced my qualms with inserting U’s.

    I realize I’ve always lived in poorly designed kitchens, so I feel uncertain of how to create a truly good one. Thanks for showing the way!

  • BradW

    Matthew – Nice to see some good and bad examples of kitchen layout. I had to laugh when you showed the angled example from the Spire project. That was what I was referring to with my comments about project consistency on Monday!

  • Elizabeth

    Lots of great, useful content in this segment. Thanks!

  • Mid America Mom

    Hello! Oh dying to comment as I usually really pick apart the design for a point. We can have plans that on the surface look good but in reality do not function well (Trinity Townhome in Dallas from what should I buy segment – I ranted). The layout needs to placed correctly within the plan and the triangle needs to be smart. And pass the butt test – yes I said that (more on that later) !
    *
    I will not go into the size of appliances (do you really need a 6 burner stove or counter depth refrigerator?).
    *
    Two things I have to throw out there as bias. Most of us come to the test with those preferences. MollyK does not care for a U kitchen. Most of you know I love U shaped kitchens. I also like an U with a large eat in area and do not mind it being open to one another. So those units would get my attention and probably a YES on the test. I think the single wall kitchen should be banned unless you are in some 300 ft studio.
    *
    The triangle should not have anything cutting it off. In jest I like to say you have to pole vault over the island as these tend to be big offenders. You try your best to get around it with minimal efforts and it looks and feels like performing some dance move (the hip moves one way and the upper body another). Now who here has sat down to eat and found you needed something else from the refrigerator? It should be on the outside – not the middle of the action. Place it near the daily eating area if you can. As for a dishwasher it should be near the sink as usually you rinse some left over stuck on stuff and then put it in. The triangle also has to give you enough elbow and counter room near the sink or stove of at least 2.5 feet for prepping or putting it all together (calling all bakers).
    *
    Then you have to address the proximity of the appliances and sink to one another. Though Matthew said the distance from back counter to island 3 to 3-6 feet I find that if you have anyone else helping 4 is more comfortable (much like how a hallway of 3 feet is hard for two people to pass without someone turning and 4 gets rid of that problem) . As for on the same wall 12 inches between them feels cramped where 18 is bearable. The butt test. If you are standing at an appliance or sink and working (like washing dishes or cooking) and someone goes to open the door to one behind you- you should not get hit in the butt by them or the door. Refrigerator are big offenders and note I exempt dishwashers :). I know it may seem silly but I have seen it time and time again and no one enjoys that happening to them. Either make the aisle wider or move the appliance or sink so it is not directly across.
    *
    And last Matthew you like function at an island. I think it is ok to not have a sink or appliance. As long as you have electricity to it I find it a great location to work with those small kitchen appliances you do not use on a day to day basis. Below you can put all the recyclables. Here in Toronto we have two kinds of recycle and their bins for them- organic and then the regular kind- in addition to the other garage can. My present kitchen is not big enough for all of them LOL.
    *
    I could go on but I have to go …
    Mid America Mom

  • BradW

    All kitchens should have two dishwashers – one for clean dishes and one for empty dishes.

  • Lacey

    Matthew you mentioned having the island fulfill a functional requirement such as an appliance. Keeping that in mind, what then would you suggest as being the ideal or preferred dimensions of the island so that there is enough counter space on each side of the appliance, as well as possibly being a place to sit and eat at?
    Currently in my floor plan for my studio project, I do have the stove on the island, and have therefore placed the hood fan above this, dropping it down from the ceiling to be level with the drop-down ceiling outlining the living space across from it.
    Is having the stove on the island unrealistic because of the hood fan?

    Thanks!
    Lacey

  • BradW

    All kitchens should have two dishwashers – one for clean dishes and one for dirty dishes.

  • Paul C

    [img]2_1.jpg[/img][img]1_2.jpg[/img]

    Ok, Slowhome phrase of the week, my nomination, “BUTT TEST”, I love it!! Valid points, MAM.

    Just for fun and maybe to spark some more discussion, the image(s) posted demonstrate a trend for island/kitchens when overall space is limited. (not sure if the images went up for they are a tad big file size wise)

  • Paul C

    [img]3_1.jpg[/img][img]2_2.jpg[/img]

    attempt #2

  • John Brown

    Paul,
    A nice looking project. But, when I think about actually cooking in that space I am concerned. The counter height piece appears to have a wood top – combined with the storage below I think that makes it too precious to use. I wouldn’t want to get cake batter on any of it. The table is more practical but it is too low to be used as a counter. In the end I think it is still a one sided kitchen with a dining table.

    Am I missing something?

  • John Brown

    M.A.M.

    BUTT Test. What a perfect image with which to end the day. Thanks!

  • MollyK

    John,
    I don’t think the counter-height piece is all wood. There looks to be an overlay of black something (not wood) with the storage nooks made of wood. I think you make some good points but the table would be a better height to roll out dough than the black counter…think short women. Surely somebody still rolls out dough in this world.:)
    One criticism I see is that you can’t hide cooking messes when you sit down to eat. Some people really have a pet peeve about seeing the pots and pans from the prep work being visible while they eat. However, it is still a sharp looking kitchen area. I’m glad Paul C posted it.

  • John Brown

    Molly k.
    A good point about the impact on the dining experience of being adjacent to the kitchen. You are absolutely right about the value of posting images like this. They are a great addition to the plan based conversation.

  • Mid America Mom

    Lacey- Good luck!
    *
    I am not an architect or designer but there are plenty of island stove tops out there.
    *
    This may help you: For specifics you may not be aware of the NKBA (national kitchen and bath association) guidelines that any lay person can check out. This section talks about placement and has island min. standards – http://www.nkba.org/guidelines/kitchen_17.aspx . You will also find information on knee space and seating clearances that may be helpful. Note the “access standard” they refer to is regarding design for those with wheelchairs or limited mobility. I also like this article at thisoldhouse as they talk about the downdraft vent option too – http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,220906,00.html . I personally am looking forward to the day when I can have a hood as a focal point.
    *
    I can show you what NOT to do in regards to an island stove- from a plan in the Trinity Townhomes in Dallas — http://www.trinitytownhomes.com/homes/floor_plans/Plan_E-1.pdf . This is a safety hazard and I wonder if they have any vent!

    Mid America Mom

  • Paul C

    Two small clarifications, the island top is stone and the open wooden shelves are on the living space side, if that makes a difference.

    And for the record I am a dough roller…besta pizza anda panni ona da blocka

  • Mid America Mom

    Lacey- Good luck!
    *
    I am not an architect or designer but there are plenty of island stove tops out there.
    *
    This may help you: For specifics you may not be aware of the NKBA (national kitchen and bath association) guidelines that any lay person can check out. This section talks about placement and has island min. standards – http://www.nkba.org/guidelines/kitchen_17.aspx . You will also find information on knee space and seating clearances that may be helpful. Note the “access standard” they refer to is regarding design for those with wheelchairs or limited mobility. I also like this article at thisoldhouse as they talk about the downdraft vent option too – http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,220906,00.html . I personally am looking forward to the day when I can have a hood as a focal point.
    *
    I can show you what NOT to do in regards to an island stove- from a plan in the Trinity Townhomes in Dallas — http://www.trinitytownhomes.com/homes/floor_plans/Plan_E-1.pdf . This is a safety hazard and I wonder if they have any vent!

    Mid America Mom

    (Posting this again as I think it did not take. Sorry to MOD).

  • Mid America Mom

    OK- I knew I was opening myself up for it. The tongue and cheek can work. I am sure if you recall anything about kitchens next week you will think of that!
    *
    Paul C’s photos. It makes the single wall a wee bit better. We give desirable landing space and prep space and a nice cohesive look with an eat in table. I just hope they give enough elbow room and seating clearances (this would qualify as a butt test situation). We did see that idea in some new Toronto developments. The development video for one of our Toronto finalists, Charlie Condos, has it.

    MollyK I know what you mean. I dislike the views and prefer to NOT have countertop dining (it always reminds me of one of those lunchtime quick sandwich shops). My redesign projects tend to not have this feature though nudged to do so (yes I am speaking to you Matthew) …

    *BUT I think designs like Paul posted and breakfast bars are a wonderful solution for small spaces. The homeowner gains space for hopefully another principle room and saves money and helps the environment by not buying a dining set.

    Mid America Mom

  • Mid America Mom

    Note to Web guru – my response to Lacey is not making it through…

  • Matthew North

    Hi Lacey – thanks for your question about kitchen islands. Yes, I really feel that and island needs to have some function, otherwise it feels to me like bar cart. In terms of size, I really feel that a minimum dimension of about 5 feet by 3 feet is required – cabinetry has to be 24 inches deep to hold an appliance like a stove or dishwasher or to fit a sink and you need to add a twelve inch overhang to allow enough room for an eating bar with stools. This makes the width of an island with a seating area a minimum of three feet. In terms of length, a dishwasher is 24 inches by 24 inches and a kitchen sink cabinet is usually a minimum of 32 inches in width meaning that a minimal length of an island would be about 5 feet (allowing for sufficient counter space on either side) – this is also a dimension that I feel works proportionally from a visual perspective with a three foot depth. If you are putting a cook top or a range in an island, you need to deal with the ventilation issue. An overhead hood fan can be a great architectural detail provided it is not obstructing some really important view. Alternatively, you can use a down draft which is a ventilation fan that sits behind the cook top and pops up above the counter when turned on – if you choose the down draft option, make sure you allocate more budget as they are more expensive and you will need to add an extra 6 to 12 inches to the depth of your island to accommodate the blower below the counter. Hope that helps!

  • Lacey

    Thanks Matthew!

  • https://wtgrating.com Wtgrating WayTong

    A nice looking project.
    I have same feel that a minimum dimension of about 5 feet by 3 feet is required – cabinetry has to be 24 inches deep to hold an appliance like a stove or dishwasher or to fit a sink and you need to add a twelve inch overhang to allow enough room for an eating bar with stools.