25/02/10 – Toronto – Townhomes

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Hi Matthew and John!

I had to laugh at requirements today. I love the shared front entry and this was asking for it! But the sunken back entry with two stairs is this new plan. The front now has a sliding closet door.

So here we have a back entry with its own closet and if wanted a seat. Walk a few stair up and you are on the main floor. The half bath is here and I choose the swing OUT so no need for everyone to see the fixtures from the living space. Toward the living is a carved out space with a pantry and a desk opposite. Good for kids doing homework. The kitchen has a refrigerator recessed. Also what builder thinks that we can live without a dishwasher in a space this size and geared for families?

So the great room is basically now a square (18 or so). I switched the slider and decided that would be a good place for the table. Took out the fireplace (usually NOT energy efficient and I bet this builder would not put in the good one) and decided to make that wall a little smaller and for the TV/media. I wanted to make sure space was in front of it for WII! Instead of a separate arrangement I went for a sectional couch.

I will not be back on until later today and look forward to your comments (and John’s redesign).

Mid America Mom

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First, I have to say that I entertained the same kitchen concept as BradW. That is really interesting.
Didn’t mess with entry…for now. Assumed the basement would be frequently used living space so I removed the door on the landing to open up the stairs. Flipped the bathroom to opposite wall…felt it resulted in a more workable space for remaining areas. Shifted garage entry stairs forward and created an open seating area with shelf and pegs for hanging coats. Kitchen is pretty nondescript except the pantry emerged from some wasted space at garage stairs. Living area walls have long built-ins. Finally got to use a round dining table! Flipped window and sliding door.
Have a confession…after mentally redesigning the floorplan I watched John’s video. I wish I’d thought about the fireplace…felt like kicking myself. Did not use his idea since it wasn’t my own. Also, never considered the front door placement…what a brilliant move! Frankly, I like side-lights on both sides of front doors so I probably wouldn’t have thought to change it. BUT with smaller house fronts that is a great idea!

Brad W – similar organizational strategy to M.A.M. I love the big island with the end acting as a dining table. An alternative to this would be to shorten the island and move the stools down opposite the sink and shorten the long kitchen counter, leaving a space for a separate dining table next to the window. I think overall, the island strategy is what I would go with given the proportion of this unit. Again, the changes are modest while the improvement is massive.

BradW,
I like the absence of upper cabinets in your design. I bet that makes the area feel more open and light (as in not heavy). I hadn’t considered how upper cabinets could make these already narrow townhomes feel even more narrow. You could put artwork along the wall above the counter and light it with either can lights with wall-washer trims or track lights, depending on your style.

Molly K – you are absolutely right with your comment on the upper cabinets – leaving them out opens up the space with can then be finished in a variety of ways depending on your style and budget.

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Added round table and made some changes to kitchen and back entry – refinement inspired by ideas from Matthew, MAM and MollyK

BradW,
Thanks for the information about spacing. I didn’t notice that…I was rushing to finish. Wow, once you stop and look closer, it is quite evident.
I think your revised plan pulls together good elements from the 3 designs (with Matthew’s guidance, of course). Between you and me, I still like your original seating arrangement the most. I think it’s because the lines are so clean and the long island moves you through the space so effortlessly. It adds perceptual depth (to some degree even just as an illusion). Also, think about the light fixture you could put over the eating area. It could really rock! (I like cool light fixtures…didn’t realize how much they can impact a room until I married an electrical contractor.)

HI Matthew I was thinking of having that desk at a half wall originally… I should have gone with it.

I am going to play with my kitchen a bit more. I love the simplicity of no back cabinets- your thoughts?

Terri – I like your design. Just a couple of things…..I would swap the locations of your fridge and wall oven. I would also pull the chair in your living room grouping forward closer to the sofa. I can imagine the built ins adjacent to the pantry being bookshelves and some extra space in front would be great for access.

Hi Slowhomers,

Unfortunately I didn’t get time this week to do the design exercise but had fun looking at all your responses as well as John’s proposal.
One thing that I find amusing (it’s obvious if you think about it) is the subtle cultural nuances in all this work. Eg. having a seat by the front door so you can put your boots on and having a back entry with a seat and coat hooks. This seems obvious to you guys because this is what you do every time you go in and out of your houses, but to someone from the relatively benign climates “down under” this would seem totally alien. In the UK many houses have conservatories to deal with climate as well as air locks at the front door. Again, we don’t have this in Oz. The frustration for me is that there are climatic factors that should influence Australian residential design and yet the vast majority of houses ignore them. In our case verandahs, when done well are fantastic for about 2/3 of the year to enjoy our nice weather. Deep eaves will keep out the hot summer sun and let in the warm winter sun. The list goes on…

I think it’s great how you guys embrace your practical everyday needs in what makes a house great to live in. I just wish more people on my side of the planet would embrace a similar philosophy. We will get there in the end, we just need to continue pushing!

Sorry for such a large rant but I know you’ll be with me. Cheers…

HI Jenny- You can submit one now if you like. I love seeing everyone’s work.

I like reading your comments. Always spent my life in places with snow so nice to hear about the other side. Speaking of airlocks… I see them sometimes in Toronto and then back home in the states. But it seems to be on older properties.

I could not see where I could add a door to the back entry as it is sunken and would use space for the door swing. HUM…

Hi All,

I found this a really challenging design project, and will admit I finally quit after a couple of hours. I admire all those who worked it through and arrived at workable solutions. Upon viewing the postings II see that I was thinking along the same line as most folks, including John, but felt I had nothing extra to offer. I think there are really great features in each submission and it is great to see how the plans are becoming a blend of all those good ideas. As an individual solution I favour Terri’s.

If this was a WWWTH exercise I would have to say that number 1 problem is the garage. It is a major player in setting up a bowling alley that begins at the front door and that can never be mitigated. The relative narrowness of the unit makes it very difficult to separate functional spaces from one side to the other, especially when the intrusive staircase sets up a five foot parameter on the left side of the space. So the staircase is my number 2 problem. It is the combo of the garage and the staircase that initiates a set of serious design compromises for the rest of the unit, and in this design exercise, especially the main floor.

My ultimate failure in coming up with a workable design was that I could never get enough space around anything – workable kitchen, functional dining room, well-considered living room with or without TV/fireplace, and, again I have to ask, what about the Christmas tree?!!!

A kitchen needs a absolute minimum of 8 feet in width (10 in my world) – so I couldn’t figure out how to get a really good kitchen on the right side of the unit with a workable dining space on the left in conjunction with a functional living room along the back that didn’t waste a whole lotta space, especially if you want to get outdoors through the sliding glass door regardless of where it might exist along the back wall. I feel that space and circulation are compromised in all of the design solutions offered today, along with my own aborted attempt (maybe I am just not a townhouse sort-of person).

I also got a bit hung up on Matthew’s video comment that he thought the existing kitchen was too small so I really focused on making the kitchen work well and perhaps this was my downfall. I really like BradW’s solution of incorporating the dining area into the counter, and MollyK thought of it too – this was a good way to eliminate a couple of desperately needed feet in width. I also thought about M.A.M.’s solution, a while back, of a banquette, but ultimately couldn’t go there. In desperation I decided that take-out was the way to go and I finally realized quite a good space without the intrusion of a kitchen! (maybe it could go in the basement along with cook’s quarters and a dumb-waiter).

MollyK – You are right not get too caught up in dimensions at least in the initial draft. As John does, you are first developing a strategy for the space. And as you gain experience, this strategy is something you may be able to do in your head. Notice how John was asking Matthew if he could change this or that as Matthew was describing the space – John likely had already developed the space is his mind’s eye. Regardless, once you see your space on paper you can then refine it using proper dimension and scale.

Thanks people for your comments. I think we can all identify with Murray’s frustration. It’s a bit of a “silk purse out of a sow’s ear” situation really.

Just in terms of the dimension question, I think what Molly K and Brad W were alluding to makes sense. I, too used to obsess about 900mm here and 600mm there (yes we are metric). However, once you have a general understanding of how big things are eg. a kitchen bench is 600 deep, should have say 1000 – 1100 between bench and island etc. then you can let go a bit because intuitively you understand whether something has the potential to work or whether there is no chance. Then you get to John’s position of looking at the overall picture before you start and it gives you a bit more freedom.

Also, if it’s not quite working – pick up a fatter pen! It works for me ;)

Matthew,
I was away from the computer until now, so this reply is probably too late, but I want to tell you I appreciate your comments on my plan, which was basically just another version of what seems to have been a general consensus on what to do with this townhouse. As for that fridge, I tend to put them near to the table–an old habit based on earlier times with young kids and frequently going from table to fridge to get something or other that was forgotten. I can see from a design point of view, though, that it would look better where you suggest.

Murray,
I had the opposite opinion of this space at first glance; that is, I thought that the general positioning of the garage and staircase were okay, maybe even fairly streamlined compared to some of the plans we see. But once I started fiddling with the plan to change it, I came to see its weaknesses. This is what makes these exercises interesting to do–even if my “bright” idea won’t translate, the fitting of the pieces into some kind of sensible pattern is still fun (if I have the time to play a bit). Of course, I’ve had my times of giving up too.

Jenny,
I found your comments regarding the differences between northern and southern climates interesting. In snowy country, bulky clothing and footwear can wear us out, not just with putting it on or off but with having to store the stuff in the summer. While it’s in use, though, it can be truly annoying if we have to trip over boots or walk through puddles left by same or fight through a confusing mess of gloves, hats and scarves to find a particular one.
Maybe in Oz you aren’t dealing with quite the same level of general daily frustration–although my brother-in-law in Brisbane did have the “annoyance” of a huge snake (a boa constrictor, I believe) winding its way into the bedroom because the windows were open all night.

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rearranged my living room and fixed the bath. Drove me nuts!

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Little late but here it is

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- two-sided fireplace used to divide living from dining space
- entrry closet door switched to sliding units
- front door shifted over to allow for straighter circulation path from front door into home
- all walls around staircase removed and replaced with railings (door also removed)

HI Jodi! I like the kitchen. (Oh dreaming…though this is NOT instyle with the home – I picture concrete counters). I personally would prefer the refrige to the back wall to keep it out of that circulation for the back entry.

Double sided fireplace in this space what a surprise. Since you have dining toward the center I like that it give us a focal as I can see where I’d put my table. And the placement gives more than that. When you walk in you can see part of it, down the stairs, in that room.

I am curious what you would do if the front of the home could be altered as well.

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Previous post stated ‘fatal error’. trying again.