An In Depth Look at Apt/Lofts in Philadelphia

Posted on: June 17th, 2010 | 47 Comments

This is Day 149 of the Slow Home Project and we need you to join us in our quest to evaluate the design quality of houses in nine North American cities in nine months. Today we are going to review what makes a good laundry space in an apartment/loft.

For today’s “In Detail” segment we are looking at laundry spaces. As you remember from the Slow Home Test, laundry needs to be located in a private but accessible location and there needs to be adequate space in front of the machines for doing laundry. A good design rule of thumb is that you should allow at least three feet of unobstructed space in front of the washer and dryer to have an adequate laundry facility. Today, are looking specifically at laundry in apartment/ loft units and all of our examples come from Philadelphia.

1. This is an example of a bad laundry space. The stacker washer and dryer is right behind the door swing of the front door and completely blocks access to the hot water tank.

2. This is an example of a better laundry space. Although the hot water tank is still partially concealed, at least the double doors allow full access to the machines.

3. This is an example of a bad location for the laundry because it is on the edge of the kitchen and the dining room and will disrupt circulation to the kitchen and will cause noise conflicts with the dining space.

4. This is an example of a well designed laundry space – the hallway is extra wide to allow plenty of room in front of the machines and the laundry is well removed from the main living spaces.

5. This is a good example of the minimum dimensions that are required for side by side laundry machines to fit in their own room and still have space to work.

6. This is the worst example of a laundry location. Avoid laundry machines in bathrooms if at all possible because these spaces tend to be tight already and in this case, the door swings make it really awkward.

7. This is a bad location for laundry in this plan as it is right next to the dining area. What makes this more unacceptable is that the unit has more than enough space to properly design it in another location.

8. This is a good location for the laundry and hot water tank. The walk through storage vestibule makes them even more separated from the public parts of the house.

We need you to let us know what you think is important for laundry design in apartment/ loft projects! Post your comments as well as any plans that you can find that best describe laundry spaces that are good and some that are bad. We look forward to your posts!

Join us tomorrow for our Friday wrap up and our review of the Design Project submissions from this week as well as our pick for Slow Homer of the Week!

  • autobrad

    [img]b2lg.gif[/img]

    Very interesting about laundry. I find designing the laundry as one of the most difficult and last remembered of the features. Seems like it is always a struggle to figure out where to put it…bathrooms seem like the default position and that is where many are in plans I have sourced on the net. Thanks for the insight on why it is poor design to put them in bathrooms. The other chronic issue seems to be to have them in the kitchen. How bad is it to have in the kitchen but out of the way and not near dining? Overall I was surprised by how many designs…even i luxury apartments/lofts that had the laundry in the bathroom or near the main living. Here is one that I liked because it is out of the way and a good size and not an interference.

  • MollyK

    Matthew,
    I’m glad to hear you address the functional aspects of a home’s mechanical systems…in this case, the water heater. Most people don’t think about the failure of their water heater. It’s bad enough when an element goes bad, and you’re stuck without hot water until it’s fixed. But even worse is when the unit failure involves a water leak…talk about a catastrophic mess.

    The idea of a catastrophic failure leads me to your comment about the W/D in the bathroom…I, too, do not prefer the laundry in the bathroom. But it is a safer place than a bedroom closet if you have a water line failure. I can’t imagine a worse place to have water leaking…the majority of bedrooms are carpeted and many times shoes and other clothing are placed on the closet floor. If you don’t enter your closet very often you may not notice the leak until it creeps into the bedroom; but at least in the bathroom there isn’t carpet and the walls can slow down the flow of water into other rooms.

    I understand the convenience of a W/D in the bedroom closet…that’s where your clothes are. But, in my opinion, there are other factors (very important and not so obvious factors) to consider when placing any mechanical elements in a residence.

  • MollyK

    Autobrad,
    I think the W/D placement in your plan is good. I’m on my bandwagon today about the downside of W/D placement if the water line breaks. You would probably notice a water leak much faster given the location of the W/D in your plan…hopefully, the hallway isn’t carpeted, but I’m not betting on it.

  • nicole

    Ice House, Unit 16- as posted by Catherine
    http://www.theicehousedevelopment.com/JPGs/march10/16-lrg.jpg
    Overall Good laundry.
    Shared with utilities.
    If it was more than a 1 bedroom place, I would not be too keen on the entry through the bath.

  • Eric S.

    Murray made a really interesting comment yesterday regarding MollyK’s plan. I though it be good to repost it today in case it got lost in the shuffle.

    From: http://theslowhome.com/slow-home-project/remodelling-aptlofts-in-philadelphia/#comment-11227

    “MollyK

    Don’t know if you will ever see this, but thanks for your involvement with a rethink of my plan. I do like what you did, and I don’t mind losing the door from the bedroom into the bathroom. I had considered that in an earlier attempt, but then decided to stick with the door which limited bed placement options.

    Re: the kitchen – I know – I am afraid that I was of the mind,”if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em – but also I was trying to keep it “loft-like” to appeal to trendy Philly buyers!.

    Re: laundry – given our parameters I think the laundry pretty much has to go in the bathroom. I got really hung up on the plumbing issue thinking it all had to be on the one wall, but then decided the plumbing and venting could run between floor joists, as long as it is reasonably close to the “wet wall” and J&M call it.

    I’d rather have the laundry in the bathroom than in the bedroom. I know Terri is totally against laundry in the kitchen!”

  • Allie G

    [img]amalfifp.gif[/img]

    This is the Amalfi. Overall I think the placement is all right. It has sufficient space to operate, is given it’s own room, and does not impede on any of the main rooms. MollyK, I think you would appreciate the placement of this laundry because it is beside two bathrooms and the hallway, so if there was a leak, it wouldn’t be totally catastrophic.

  • JPHH

    [img]floorplanlaundry.jpg[/img]

    Here is a bad placement. If I am right they placed the laundry in the kitchen within a closet with shelves beside it. I can’t understand why somebody would think of placing the laundry there.

  • frazer

    [img]phillybrinley.jpg[/img]

    Here’s a good one. http://www.navalsquare.com/pdfs/Brinley.pdf Close to the main bedroom and bathroom, does not take up too much space and is adjacent to storage. It is also not in the bedroom in case of mechanical problems and noise issues!

  • MarisaM

    [img]post.jpg[/img]

    This apartment was donated by autobrad. The laundry room looks into the hallway facing the bedroom and bathroom. The location of the laundry room uses up the space with from the bathtub.

    The laundry room is small and compact, without any space for folding or other needs in a laundry room. Although the laundry room is small, it is the appropriate size for the apartment.

  • Mid America Mom

    Hi John and Matthew and everyone!

    Maybe I watch too many house hunters international episodes on HGTV … but I am fine with laundry in the bath or kitchen if it is done correctly.

    A friend of ours had the laundry in the powder room. It worked but she wished she had one more foot. Laundry in a closet next to the kitchen, or off to the side of it, is convenient. If you have a side by side you can place the basket on the dryer.

    Laundry in the kitchen with 3/4 feet in front of the unit- located outside the triangle and circulation, tucked under the counter, seems quite acceptable. I would like to try a drying closet. I assume these are in the bedroom? Seems much easier on the clothing then tumble dryers.

    ***So are we against or OK with entry way washing units in a closet?***

    Mid America Mom

  • Matthew North

    Hi Molly K – you bring up a good point about laundry in non “wet” areas. In our projects, we always detail the floors of our laundry closets with a drain and a tile base (think of a shower stall) to help contain water in case of a failure. That way it should not matter if it is in a bedroom area or hallway as long as the enclosure is detailed properly.

  • Matthew North

    Hi MAM – I am OK with laundry in the entry as long as it does not conflict with the operation of the front door and there is enough room to do laundry in front of the machines. Some of the laundry closets we have seen in front entries are really awkward – I had an old apartment where the laundry closet door hit the front door handle and the washing machine door did not open all the way. Also, the drywall was all damaged from the builder trying to force the machine into the space that really was too small to begin with! Maybe that has scarred me for life. I told John as we were taping this episode that I know we are going to get lots of discussion about the laundry as it seems to be a hot button with lots of opinions!

  • Terri

    MollyK,
    Your discussion of leakage reminded me of when our hot water tank burst (slowly, fortunately). Even though there was a floor drain–as Matthew describes–it malfunctioned (some kind of blockage outside) and we ended up with water-soaked carpet (this room functions as dual-purpose, so the laundry closet is part of a “guest/sewing” room). Anyway, is wasn’t a wall-to-wall carpet and could be taken outside to dry.

    But…back to the hot water tank…the unit is located around the bend in a closet, so it necessitates moving out the washer when it needs replacing. Bad design, which would totally annoy me if I was the one doing the work–but fortunately my husband had to deal with it. :)

  • Terri

    Matthew,
    Good discussion on laundries in apts/lofts. Your comments regarding washer/dryer in bathroom are well taken. I think the only way this can work nicely is if the W/D unit is off to the side, away from any door swings with a wall partition to separate it a bit. Dan’s plan from yesterday did a nice job of this configuration; it reminded me of one I once had.

    I’ve also lived with the W/D laundry closet in the kitchen, and I have to say that was worse, though at least it didn’t impede entry into the room and wasn’t anywhere near the dining table, as in your example today.

  • Terri

    Re: Laundry stories.
    Has anyone had their washer fail and leak badly? I haven’t experienced this yet. Is it more common with front-loading machines?

  • MollyK

    Terri,
    I too had the water heater leak in my first house. Luckily I was home and heard a hissing noise. There too was a pan and drain which didn’t help because of blockage. I was quick enough to turn off the valve leading from the outside. Whew…

    However, I have a horror story with our attic HVAC. Last year an alarm went off in our home warning us that the HVAC overflow pan in the attic had water in it. I checked it and saw no water. We disarmed the alarm and FORGOT to re-arm it. Well, needless to say the pan overflowed because the drain line was clogged. And we didn’t know until it was too late. Several ceilings had to be redone. There was even water stains down one wall where the water had leaked between the studs. Water damage is no laughing matter. Clean out your drains yearly…oh, and re-alarming your alarm helps too. ;)

  • MollyK

    Oh, Terri, I forgot to say I have a front-loader and don’t have problems with leaks. Frankly, I’ve heard stories of dryers catching fire moreso than washers having water leaks. Clean out your link screen regularly. And periodically blow out the dryer duct work to the outside.;)

    One other thing…it was my husband who forgot to re-arm the water sensor alarm. I take no responsibility for the home automation system…it’s too complicated.

  • MollyK

    MAM,
    I think entry way W/D areas are odd. I don’t want to do laundry in the entry hallway. Frankly, I don’t want to do laundry in ANY hallway. (sigh…) However, I understand the issue of available space, especially in apartment/loft units. I agree with Matthew about the advantage of having a slightly larger hallway if a W/D unit must be in that location. Once you have a family it’s hard to compromise on the laundry area. It just has to have a certain level of functionality to make that chore easier.

    Allie G,
    (love your name…that’s my daughter’s first name and middle initial) OK, back to SlowHome. Yes, I like your laundry example. Oh to have that kind of space in every residence.

    Eric S,
    Thanks for posting Murray’s reply to me…I looked for one this morning but didn’t see it. He must have put it up after I left yesterday’s comment section.

  • Bell604

    [img]fp231floorplan.jpg[/img]

    Here is a plan from a retirement facility in Edmonton. I think that the plan shows good placement of the laundry facilities. The downfall to this placement is that it is close to the great room and dinning room areas, so if the machine is running it could be noisy, and the closet uses a bi-fold door. However, one thing that is really nice about it, is the closet space is big enough to allow some space in front of the washer/dryer. This enlarges the small hallway space and lets the user have room to place his/her basket in front of the machine.

  • Mid America Mom

    Had a washer leak once- happened right when the washer started and there was plenty of water.

    I guess we are used to our Canadian and American top loaders. My mother ditched a front loader after a few years due to issues with the drum and I had a issue on a front loader due to same. Talking to the appliance repair folks- these units are sensitive when it comes to keeping the drum in balance. So if you load too much or something heavy then you court issues.

    ***
    Molly K I have to comment on the HVAC. To me it is really odd as where I grew up you would not put these in the attic. The AC unit is outside and the heat is usually natural gas or propane furnace (or boiler) in a first floor closet or basement. We have family in Arizona and Florida. The first time I realized the air was on the roof or in the attic I thought it was the strangest thing… But to me it makes sense this way as to let the cold air flow down.

    Mid America Mom

  • autobrad

    [img]generatethumb.jpg[/img][img]floordbig.png[/img]

    here are a couple plans that I thought had pretty nasty W/D placements. The noise and access are issues. I pulled these because they are from high end luxury apartments. It seems to show that you don’t always get the design you paid for.:)

  • autobrad

    Hi Marisa

    Thanks for bringing the bad laundry…’airing the dirty laundry’ of the unit I posted. I selected that unit because it has a number of issues, mainly circulation.

  • Mid America Mom

    Thanks for the responses everyone (and I did get a laugh from that laundry story Matthew).

    Before I move on-
    Presently we have no laundry and have to go to another floor for the shared laundry room with all its joys. I spend over 1.5 hours of my life there – many times a week- not an exciting place. Washing machines filled with gunk from last user, stuff being stolen, spending too much money for short wash and dry cycles, dryers filled with lint…. I would be happy to have one in my unit regardless of where – even if bad.

    ***Getting to the work for the day** 1. Plans with examples. Sorry I could not get these to save as Jpeg so here are links. The Bryn Mawr condo – http://www.beaumontretirement.com/images/floorplans.pdf has laundry in a deeper hall closet near a bath and bedrooms. I can see being able to place a basket or pile in front of the machine and can close the door. Looks good. This condo at 22Front – http://22front.com/downloads/unitplan_r1.pdf has the laundry tucked in a closet and there is room next to the unit. But the closet is in the tight as it is entry making working at the unit difficult and so this is a Bad laundry location.
    2. What is important for laundry design. Washing and drying units should not interfere with other functions. In front of door or in the middle of kitchen should be avoided. Be aware that if placed in the public space of the home noise is to be expected. Being tucked away in a small room or deep closet that allows you to put a basket or pile of laundry down is ideal.

    Mid America Mom

  • MollyK

    Bell604,
    Your laundry example brings to mind the question of how much room should there be in front of the W/D. The closet in your floorplan is deep enough for the stacker to sit back, away from the door opening. I like that because it allows you to move out of the circulation path even more than in some of the other examples where the stacker appears to be right at the door opening. I wish more laundry “closets” were this deep…

  • Cnick

    I couldnt upload the image, but here is the floorplan link to The Victor 1 bedroom apartment originally uploaded by Scott.

    http://www.thevictorlofts.com/floor/2.pdf

    The laundry room here is inside the bathroom, but in its own little room inside of the already small bathroom. I think is not a great laundry room location because it will seem extremely tight and claustrophobic in there. When doing laundry, it is nice to have a place to put the laundry basket, have a surface to fold and spray on stain remover etc. This laundry room does not allow for the extra chores that laundry creates and is very impractical.

  • Hilda

    [img]fp1bwmax310hmax270.jpg[/img]

    Here’s one that I think got an okay lundry placment. It’s the One Franklin Town one bedroom unit called Sr. Jefferson. While I agree to the general opinion on the bad places for lundry placement, this one works out despite it is placed near the front entrance.
    Also, I personally have nothing against lundry in bathroom, but aside from the water leakage concern, I’m more worried about safety issues, such as electricity leakage, since dryers do use alot of it.
    Cheers!

  • Alison G

    Units 416, 417, and 418 in the Memphis Flats Development all have decent laundry locations (private, adequate room, etc).

    http://www.memphisflats.net/#/RESIDENCES/FLOORPLANS/

    Having been periodically laundry-less throughout my life, I agree with MAM that I am just happy to have one in my unit, no matter how awkward, noisy, or poorly located.

  • Grace Coulter

    [img]6c8c1bdrm.png[/img]

    Hi everyone,

    I went through the apts rated slow and I came across this one. I think its interesting you would transition through the closet to the laundry. It certainly tucks the machines out of sight. I also think getting a stacked set would allow for this room to function better for storage but I must admit I think it is a bit claustrophobic looking. I wish I had a floor plan or could post a picture of the laundry set up in my apt. I think its really brilliant, a fact confirmed after watching the tutorial. Its in a very deep closet, stacked with lots of room on either side, opening onto a very wide hallway next to the bedrooms. Its a closet but it feels like a little room. Cheers everyone.

  • Mid America Mom

    Any World Cup soccer fans out there (Go USA!)? and Yes ties into laundry of all things :)

    http://g.ca.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/news/sewage-spill-lays-waste-to-england-s-uniforms–fbintl_ro-englandlaundry061510.html

  • MollyK

    [img]shlaundry.jpg[/img]

    The laundry closet in this plan has a door swing that interferes with the bathroom door swing…I think that would be a no-no.

    Matthew,
    If you see this plan explain the door swing at the bathroom. My understanding is that in residential homes doors normally swing into a room not out as in this plan. I noticed that an interior swing would interfere with the shower door depending on which side the door is hung.

  • bbhorner

    [img]sm.10rfloorplanf811.jpg[/img]

    Here is a laundry room that follows the Slow Home guidelines pretty well. To quote the Slow Home test this laundry is “located in an accessible but private area and has sufficient workspace in front of the machines that does not conflict with other uses.” The size of this closet/room is also really nice because it provides a lot enough work space with out a lot of wasted space. In the floorplan it shows a stacked unit but you could easy have a side by side or add some shelving or even a sink if you desired.

  • Matthew North

    Molly K – you are correct that residential doors should always swing into the room. Most frameless glass shower doors do allow the swing to be in both directions, so if that is the case, an inswing bathroom door could still be possible in this case – I am not sure of the logic to have the door swing out in this instance.

  • MollyK

    Thanks Matthew,

    BTW, bbhorner just posted a floorplan with several “outswinging” doors, including the powder room which interferes with the front door. Tell me one other thing…it is called an outswing door or is there a different term?

  • PeterB

    [img]5_untitled.jpg[/img]

    Here is Unit 101 from the Duck Flats project. The Laundry area is in a great place off the bathroom in its own big room. Although its not great and may cause noise for both the bedrooms, the master is probably uneffected. Also this building is Leed certified.

  • Matthew North

    Molly K – I call them outswing doors when they swing out from the room and inswing doors when they swing into a room.

  • D.Eng

    [img]laundrybad.jpg[/img]

    Example of a bad laundry location.
    The laundry is located in the master bath which does have enough space however the door to the bathroom conflicts with the door to the laundry closet.

  • D.Eng

    [img]laundrygood.jpg[/img][img]laundryok.jpg[/img]

    Example of good/ok laundry space.
    The laundry space in the apartment is in a good location because it is not directly visible to the kitchen and does not share a wall with any bedrooms.
    The laundry in the loft could is an okay location. It could be made better if it opened into the closet rather than the main hallway.

  • SangeetaG

    [img]6_untitled.jpg[/img]

    Here are two examples of good and bad laundry spaces. In the Benjamin Franklin, the laundry has its own designated space, large enough, giving good clearance for someone washing clothes. It also is enclosed so that it remains private although it is located upon entry. I think this is a good example of a laundry space.

    In the Dobson Mills Apartments, the laundry is located in the Kitchen. Where they could have had a pantry, there is a washer/dryer. This is a badly located laundry as hygiene becomes an issue. A kitchen is supposed to be a clean space, and by locating the laundry here and bringing in the dirty clothes is problematic to health. They could have easily located the washer/dryer in the master bath, instead of providing another closet. Not the best place, but at least much better than its current location.

  • Kadoman

    [img]phillybadlaundry.jpg[/img]

    Here we have a floorplan from the Ellington project.

    I think this laundry skirts the line. As Matthew said, it is in the bathroom, and that presents issues. However, I think the slider door presents the space with a little less awkwardness, and there is some room to work. However, it still is a very small space, and if the unit was designed differently there could definitely be a better spot for the laundry.

    My laundry concerns mainly revolve around location with respect to main living areas (not near) and bedrooms (closer) as well as lots of work space. In my current house, my laundry gets done in the hallway, which is very annoying for me when I am doing it, and my other half and the dog, who have to jump and tip toe around it.

  • Dan M

    Personally I’ve always liked laundry areas to have their own little room, however as we all know this cannot always happen in an apartment plan. As for entry way laundry, I’ve had this and while it worked, it wasn’t very pleasant. I’ve had dining room laundry, while it worked and was screened by an accordion door, it was still an intruder into the space. The best I’ve seen in smaller areas are usually in mudrooms (or pantries) and tuck in quite nicely out of public view. bathroom machines work well, if they are tucked out of the way and they have the necessary space to operate properly and allow for a work flow. Never had a bedroom one yet… don’t like the idea of that though.

  • Jessica

    [img]floorplanl.jpg[/img]

    Say what you will about locating laundry facilities in the bathroom zone. I contend that laundry facilities placed in close proximity to bathroom and bedroom work in a one bedroom / studio flat scenario (with acceptable access). I think it’s important, as far as economy of space is concerned, to not only have a universal plumbing wall, but also to locate laundry close to areas where it will likely be generated (bedrooms / bathrooms).

    While there are other problems with this plan, I think the location of the washer/dryer works:
    http://www.lofts640.com/floorplanL.html

  • Athena

    [img]1401walnut.bmp[/img]

    This is from the project 1401 Walnut st. The Laundry room is separated and away from main living spaces to reduce noise. It does no interfere with circulation and it also has space infront of the machine with access to the hot water tank.

    Athena

  • Paul C

    I think one component of laundry design that needs to be considered, regardless of the home size, are all, what I would characterize as, the ancillary features. Is there appropriate storage for all those things that go along with doing the laundry? Is there room to hang or layout things? Where is the folding done? Can a dirty laundry basket be accommodated? Mathew touched on it briefly but how is the sound generation dealt with?

    I am of the view for example, that stacker machines within a “just large enough” closet is a bit of a cheat even if it is discreetly located and imposes minimal conflicts. On laundry day, the adjoining spaces become the defacto laundry room. How many Bounce sheets will inadvertently end up in the fruit bowl or in the DVD player?

  • Andrew

    [img]2_fp116468721003225589.jpg[/img]

    This is an example of a really bad laundry space. It’s in the kitchen and you have to walk around the counter and through the entire length of the kitchen just to access the stacked machines. The space in front of the machines is also really tight. It looks like there is at least a bit of a shelf adjacent to the machines but when the door is opened it partially blocks access to the shelf (if that’s the way the door opens; if it opens the other way then that’s an even bigger problem!). This would be a really awkward in inconvenient place to try and do one’s laundry.

    And Paul C, I have to completely agree with you. Doing laundry doesn’t start and end inside the machines, a significant amount of space is required for ironing, sorting, etc. Space like this often can’t be afforded in an apartment but it should at least be a consideration for the neighbouring spaces which could hopefully become multi-use on laundry day.

  • Neogi

    [img]bsfpplan3.jpg[/img]

    This unit has a decent laundry, although the laundry is at the entry, on a positive note it is tucked away slightly. However the overall location is very dysfunctional, as it is located right off the foyer it is not private, the alcove doesn’t even include doors. On a positive note, this would force the resident to do their laundry often and keep it clean as it is clearly visible as you enter the house. I think the best place for laundry units is on the top floor where the bedrooms are. By placing the units where the clothes it cuts down on the travel time for the resident to move the laundry down stairs.

  • DJS

    this one was somewhat interesting, because there is enough space in front of it, but it seems odd to have the laundry infront of the kitchen. I would find it weird to be doing laundry while someone was cooking a foot away from me, or vice versa.

  • DJS

    Ok no matter what format I save the floorplan in it won’t upload. it keeps saying access denied. John or Matthew if you see this please let me know if i’m doing something wrong.