An In Depth Look At Single Family Homes In Vancouver

This is Day 184 of the Slow Home Project and we need you to join us in our quest to evaluate the design quality of houses in nine North American cities in nine months.


In today’s “in Detail” segment we are focusing on dining spaces in single family houses. All of our examples are from the Vancouver area. As you will remember from the “What’s Wrong With This House?” book, in a Slow Home, a dining area is a principal space that is proportioned to fit a table and is intended for daily use.

Too often dining spaces are left over spaces in plan and have not been designed properly to fit a table, have little or no natural light and conflict with circulation.

We need you to post examples from the Vancouver area of what you think are both good and bad dining spaces in single family houses and leave a comment as to why. We look forward to your submissions and discussion!

When you are ready, click on the player below to watch John and Matthew’s tutorial on dining spaces and see both good and bad examples in single family houses.

To see our tutorial examples in more detail, click on the links below.

1. This is an example of a house that has well designed formal and informal dining spaces. Note the natural light and that they are properly located outside the zone of circulation.

2. In this plan, the nook space is well designed but the main dining space is poor as it is in the middle of the plan and has no natural light.

3. This nook space is essentially a mudroom – it is in the middle of a major circulation route and will be full of clutter.

4. This nook space will always feel like it is “inside” the kitchen and is less than ideal – not the view from the table down into the workspace of the kitchen.

5. This house has only one dining space, but it is well done – it has a good location next to the kitchen without being “inside” of it and good natural light.

6. This single dining space is too big – it is the same proportion as the adjacent living space and will result in wasted space around the table.

7. In this dining space – where would the table go? It is not clear where the intended location would be – also there is a view from the garage through the dining room.

8. This dining room is too large – it is in the center of the plan and is divided by a circulation zone – again, where would you put the table and what are you supposed to do in the remaining space?

See you tomorrow for our Friday wrap up, review of the Design Project submissions from yesterday, our vote for who should win Best Single Family House in Vancouver and the announcement of the Slow Homer of the Week!

  • Ashley P

    [img]lunaplang.jpg[/img]

    There are some positives and several negatives about this dining room floor plan. Although the space is labeled a dining/living room, the shape and the placement of the fireplace would make it difficult to split up the area. If it were just used as a dining room it would be far too large but if it were to share the space I think it would be difficult to give it a separated feeling. This room does have a lot of natural light and is off to the side which allows for good flow but I am starting to wonder if it is possibly too out of the way in regards to the kitchen depending on where the dining table was placed. It would almost make more sense to me to put the dining room where the family room is.

  • Joshua

    [img]2dining.jpg[/img]

    At first look, I felt as though the nook areas was a bit small for a formal sized table. If it were for a smaller everyday eating table then I do not dislike the location, with easy access to the kitchen, and not in the way of any circulation. I then however noticed that they have attempted to add another dining area??? Perhaps it is supposed to be a card playing table, but if it is a second eating table, I can only assume that they were trying to fill space. The disconnect between the two areas makes it difficult to have one good eating space so instead I fell like they have too bad ones.

    In my opinion bungalows are often for older couples, or couples without children. If this concept is applied to the floor plan, I would rather see a small table for two person everyday eating and a better formal dining space for company.

  • Joshua

    [img]dining.jpg[/img]

    Now I realize that this is town home and we are supposed to be working on single family homes, but I just couldn’t get over this floor plan. It quite simply does not advertise any sort of dining room. The front living room (if it were to be a dining room) would be an over sized area to eat in, a major waste of space. If on the other hand it was put at the back of the house, i might not be so bad, expect that is has no connection to the kitchen. You would have to carry food across the house for every meal. All in all it has terrible dining space… If any at all.

  • Amanda

    [img]gooddinning.gif[/img]

    The picture posted is an example of a good dinning layout. The nook is a separate area just off the kitchen and living area with lots of natural light. The one problem with the nook is that the table, depending on its size, might get in the way of the doors for the deck. The other dinning space is good as well because it is in a separate space with windows to the front porch and out of the path of circulation into the rest of the house.

    http://www.portraithomes.ca/floorplans/floorplans_cedar.pdf
    This link gives a good and a bad example of dinning. The dining area is good because it is open between the kitchen and living but out of circulation. The nook on the other hand is open to the bathroom which is not so appealing when you’re eating.

    http://www.hazelwoodestate.ca/floorplans/lot16.pdf
    This is another good/bad example. The dining room is ok because it is out of circulation and in a separate area. However, there is only one small window. The nook is bad because it is too small, so the table would block the deck doors. Also there is a tone of wasted space in the center of the plan between where the nook table would be placed and the living area.

  • Terri

    [img]creekdining.jpg[/img]

    This was one of the worst dining rooms I found in my Vancouver search. Need I say more?

  • Mid America Mom

    Terri- that kitchen is not so good either!

  • Terri

    M.A.M.
    Yes, I agree. It would be hard to work in that kitchen with the door to the garage right in the middle and that island plunked in the work triangle.

    Amanda,
    I think the plan you posted has a nice nook, but to dine in the front room would be a stretch from the kitchen. Plus, it’s right where the front door is, which isn’t great.

    I reviewed the Cedar and I thought that nook was absurd with three main traffic zones (stairs, patio door and powder room) coming off it. The dining didn’t seem great to me because the hall closet and hall are at the side of it.

    That last plan didn’t seem to have enough space for a nook, and the dining room seems rather closed in to me.

  • Matthew North

    Terri – thanks for your marked up plan – that is a great idea to add the green notes to the post – it would be great if everyone could do that……(hint hint!!) You have also raised the issue of travel distance from the dining room to the kitchen – how far is too far to carry dishes and food? I think we should come up with a rule of thumb for this. Thoughts anyone?

  • Mid America Mom

    Matthew sure… if I could figure out how to. Terri what are you doing to accomplish this?

    But in the meantime I am looking through plans….

  • Joshua

    In response to Matthew’s idea of a rule of thumb for distance between the kitchen and the dining room, I think that the every day eating location should be attached in someway to the kitchen. The formal dining area on the other hand can be further away, as in many cases it is used for company and it can be nice to have the kitchen separate from the formal dining area.

    1st rule: Eating area must be on the same floor as the kitchen. (Obvious but important)

    2nd rule: Everyday eating area (Nook) directly accessible from kitchen.

    3rd rule….? (any other thoughts)

  • MollyK

    Without taking actual measurements I think dining rooms should be adjacent to the kitchen area. Maybe a walk-through butler’s pantry could separate them but nothing more. It takes me 10 steps to travel from my stove to my dining room table (the furtherest point in my kitchen)…

    OK, I just measured it: approximately 18 feet from stove to table.

    Matthew,
    How does this length compare to projects you’ve done? Anyone else measuring their kitchen to dining area?

  • MollyK

    Let me clarify that the stove is the fartherest point in my kitchen, not the dining table which is in the adjacent room. (Sorry, Terri, I misused the word “further” in the previous comment).

    As for Joshua’s eating nook, I think it could be closer than the dining table…mine is. But as the cook and server of the house, please don’t make me hike to the dining table with food and then back with dirty dishes. The dining area can maintain a more formal feel even if it is next to the kitchen.

  • Mid America Mom

    Sorry these are links.

    GOOD.

    Here is a home with only one dining space. http://www.morningstarhomes.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/projects/pj_1273006540_pbrook_floorplans_chehalis.pdf

    Though it is next to the kitchen it is a distinct space. Located at the back of the home it has plenty of light and access to a deck/patio. The main traffic to the patio does not go across or through the middle of the room but to a side of it. The size is generous. The 11 is good with the thought of a 3 wide table and 4 feet on each side to pull out a chair. The 16 running the other way could be cut down but this size allows a larger table and access to the patio to exist comfortably.

    BAD. Amazingly enough I found a horrible dining space with the same builder. http://www.morningstarhomes.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/projects/pj_1273006820_spointe_floorplans_sandstone.pdf

    The dining room is a squarish room. It has no actual windows to the outside though they made fake like interior ones. Located in the middle of the plan it has hallways on two sides and the garage wall on another. The casual dining in the kitchen is a enormous wasteful feeling island that has no appliance or sink.

    Help I need to see another good dining space to erase the memory!

    Mid America Mom

  • MollyK

    Terri,
    Are you sure about that dining location? Think about it…you can work up a great appetite taking everything to the dining table. Then eat a voracious meal and not feel guilty because you will work off all the calories hauling everything back to the kitchen afterwards.;) Now what could be better? You should eat in the dining room everyday which will count as your daily exercise…Do you think it’s cheaper in the long run than a treadmill? LOL:)

  • Jamie L

    [img]floorplanlarge.jpg[/img]

    Good example: This open concept floor plan is designed with an attached 2 car garage with remote door opener, main floor laundry, 3 bedrooms, a master ensuite, a second 3 pc. bathroom, patio doors in the dining room that open to a covered porch, a walk-in pantry in the kitchen, and a fully offering an addition living space and storage. Except one bedroom is beside the garage, this plan is good!

  • Jamie L

    [img]bad.jpg[/img]

    Bad example: there are three main dwelling areas in this plan. The kitchen, living room and dining room. While all of the rooms are close, they are divided by walls. There are no connection and circulation among these areas since each one is segmented by walls, doors. And there are lots of spaces are not used; there are huge hallway space.That space could have created larger bathrooms, bedrooms or living areas.

  • nicole

    [img]indetail.jpg[/img]

    Bedford Landing, as posted by Aaron.
    _good layout for the nook + dining space, not a lot of wasted space
    _not falsely labelled
    _some light from the 2 sides for the nook, but not the dining
    _dining is a bit of a trek from the kitchen (in my opinion), but still works
    Summary: nook good, dining not so good.

  • BradW

    I know its days are numbered but I really enjoy a separate formal dining room. Growing up we always had one – not only were the meals great (thanks mom) but the conversation and the company is something I will remember forever.

  • Matthew North

    Molly K – I am a strong advocate for having the dining spaces – either formal or informal – being immediately adjacent to the kitchen. I prefer plans where you do not have to transit the living space to get to the dining area. I just think about transporting food, dishes, cutlery etc. across the house – doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I think that 16 feet would be the largest distance from the kitchen but closer is better still.

  • JPod

    The dining room is a long way from the kitchen, you have to walk through the great room AND the nook to get to the kitchen. If the great room and dining had been swapped somehow this might have been a better plan. I can’t imagine carrying food from the kitchen to the dining room that far, I wonder how many spills on possibly carpet flooring there would be!
    http://www.furrycreek.ca/pdf/oceanscrest_lot4.pdf

  • MollyK

    BradW,
    I love the sentiment. I also like a dining room…I like the opportunity to play with different colors, textures, furniture, and art. I remember when my husband and I bought our first dining table to put in our first dining room. Nothing else in the room but table and chairs (not even curtains which came MUCH later) and the two of us sitting there commenting that we finally felt like adults. Who knew it took a dining table, not having kids or buying a larger home. Thanks for jogging my memory too. :)

  • MollyK

    Almost forgot…

    Matthew,
    I so appreciate your take on the dining location. You hit the nail on the head!

  • Terri

    Gee, I missed another discussion today. I think I agree with Matthew on the 16ft distance being far enough. The other thing about kitchen design that I learned long ago is that the preparation of food is supposed to “travel” towards the dining room; that means that the stove/oven are closer to the dining table than the fridge where the food begins. But I don’t think this rule is followed so much anymore.
    Anyway, I agree that adjacent is sensible.

    A separate space is nice, but I also have fond memories of family gathering in our farmhouse kitchen, not separate at all. Perhaps it’s the food or company that made the occasion. My last home had a “sunken” dining room (a converted garage with a big bay window), which was just big enough and separate enough to provide a quiet place to eat. The stove was across the room though, about 20 ft. Fortunately the dishwasher and fridge were just up the steps and a few feet.

    These details can make or break your day-to-day comfort in a home!

  • Franco

    [img]301good.jpg[/img]

    The SInclair in Saddle Creek by Morning Star is an example of a well laid out dinning space. The proportions are right, it’s close (directly adjacent) to the kitchen, and has natural lighting from outside. I like this plan as although their is only one dining space, the space is relatively open, yet private enough for a more formal occasion.

  • ReneP

    Another Morning Star home I found: the Cartier.
    No nook, but the dining room is near the huge kitchen (another one by this developer where the island is in the middle but without appliances – cutting the appliance triangle). However, the dining room is in the centre of the house without any connection to the outdoors – in fact, it is imprisoned by structural pillars.

    http://www.morningstarhomes.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/projects/pj_1271801339_Belmont_cartier.pdf

    On the converse, I did like the dining and breakfast areas in the The Laurier:

    http://www.wallmark.ca/CmImageDir/model_floorplan_32.jpg

    The breakfast area is spacious enough to allow traffic from the patio doors, and it connects to the kitchen. The dining room, although probably reaching the 16 step limit away from the kitchen (even with handy-short cut), is seperated nicely from the main corridor; and is well lit by three windows.

  • Franco

    [img]lotcmainpage1.jpg[/img]

    Here is an example of a not so impressive plan. In the development of Mountain Falls in Abbotsford.
    This plan boasts 2 dining areas (eating area and formal dining room). The eating area is a good size and close to the kitchen, but doubles as high traffic corridor within the house, it would have been nice to see a jog out for the nook. It would really give the table a place to go and wouldn’t block kitchen-great room traffic.
    The dining room, although it has great natural light, it is TOO far from the kitchen. As well possibly too open for a formal setting.

  • Terri

    Well, M.A.M., I measured my kitchen and it’s about 6 feet to the middle of the table from sink, fridge and stove! If my guests were good catches, I could probably fling the food over to them. :D

    I wanted to clarify that the garage dining area was once a single-car garage, and I looked at an old photo and counted the 1ft.sq. ceramic tiles and came out with about 17 feet to table from stove. Close to Matthew’s ideal.

    And I forgot, MollyK, to say that the word you wanted earlier was “farthest.” Kudos for knowing there’s a distinction between further and farther, though.;)

  • Dan M

    Here is lot 11 from the hazelwood estates that manolo posted. http://www.hazelwoodestate.ca/floorplans/lot11.pdf
    The dining is almost passable… It is to wide I think. One has to think do I line up the table to the middle of the windows or offset to align with the kitchen… it is nice that it is close to the kitchen and off of the living area (albeit at an angle). so close but the proportions need to be tweaked.

  • bstone52

    [img]aspen1.jpg[/img]

    I like this design – good natural lighting and proximity to the kitchen. This dining location is just outside the circulation zone and doesn’t interfere with any traffic. Its also central enough in the room to benefit from both living space and kitchen area, the trip back for seconds is nice and short.

  • frazer

    here’s a great dining room, lots of light and a great view with a good relationship to other principal living areas.

    http://www.boffo.ca/sites/pines/plans/sierra-plan.html

    Nice to see that there is no view into a powder room and that there is enough space for circulation.

  • Kyle B

    I took both examples from the first two homes I posted to the Slow Home Project this week:

    http://www.polyhomes.com/images/Floorplans/Wedgewood_INSERTS_CLR_Feb11%204.pdf
    My first example has a good dining space. As John and Matthew said to look for, it has good natural lighting and is out of the way of any transit through the house.

    http://www.polyhomes.com/images/Floorplans/Kensal_B.pdf
    My second example does not have a good dining space. It is right in the way of transit from the kitchen to the stairs going up. In addition to this it is completely out of proportion; It is much larger than the living room. In placing the table, it is guaranteed to have wasted space.