An In Depth Look At Townhomes In Vancouver

Posted on: July 15th, 2010 | 41 Comments

This is Day 177 of the Slow Home Project and we need you to join us in our quest to evaluate the design quality of houses in nine North American cities in nine months.

Bathroom design in townhouse projects is the subject of our “In Detail” episode today. All of our examples have been taken from the Vancouver area. As you will remember from the “What’s Wrong With This House?” book, in a Slow Home, bathrooms are well designed if they are appropriately scaled for the size of the residence, they need to have ample storage and continuous counters and they should avoid awkward elements, non-standard layouts or super-sized features.

In townhouses, bathroom design is critical as it is often difficult to fit an ensuite, a main bath and a guest bath into the common long and narrow townhouse footprints without some compromises of design quality. Many times, the guest bath is the most difficult to design and often ends up being located poorly in the plans – like next to the kitchen or dining room for example – or becomes either too large or too small.

We need you to look through townhouses from the Vancouver area and post examples of what you feel are both good and bad bathroom designs as well as your comments. We look forward to your posts and discussion!

When you are ready, you can watch the player below to see John and Matthew’s tutorial on bathroom design in townhouses.

Click on the thumbnails below to study the plans from the tutorial in more detail.

1. This is an example of good bathroom design in a townhouse. All three bathrooms are well designed. The guest bath is in a great location – it is both private but accessible on the main floor.

2. This is also an example of good bathroom design in a townhouse. This unit does not have a guest bath – this is also a very acceptable option. In this case, the main bath acts as both the guest bath and the family bath.

3. This is an example of where there is not enough space in the main bath to fit a shower. The corner shower may seem like a space saver, but limits the functionality of the bathroom and will be awkward to use on a daily basis.

4. This guest bath is in a poor location because it opens right into the kitchen and dining spaces. This is common in townhouses and this condition should be avoided. The family bath is also combined with the laundry area, taking up a lot of floor space that could be better allocated to storage or another function.

5. This guest bath is on the stair landing and is too small to be functional – many townhouses try to jam in a guest bath even if it ends up being similar in size to an airplane bathroom.

6. This guest bath has an awkward 45 degree angle at the door and opens directly to the kitchen – a double strike against this design! In the main and ensuite bathrooms, the toilets are directly in front of the door and the other fixtures are poorly placed.

7. This is a poorly designed guest bath as it is opens directly to the kitchen, and despite its large floor space, has a really awkward sink placement requiring an outswing door. Not a good design!

Join us tomorrow for our review of the Design Projects from Wednesday, our vote on who should win the Slow Home Award for Best Townhouse Project in Vancouver and the winner of Slow Homer of the Week!

  • BradW

    “In townhouses, bathroom design is critical as it is often difficult to fit an ensuite, a main bath and a guest bath into the common long and narrow townhouse footprints without some compromises of design quality. Many times, the guest bath is the most difficult to design and often ends up being located poorly in the plans – like next to the kitchen or dining room for example – or becomes either too large or too small.”

    Having 3 bathrooms in a typically sized townhouse does not fit my idea of a Slow Home.

  • Matthew North

    Brad W – I agree with you. I also think most of the problems with bathroom design in townhouses occur when a guest bath is added to the living level – I have just been looking at the floor plans posted on the Slow Home Project from Vancouver and there are only a few that are able to successfully do this. Most cause more problems than they are worth. There is a misguided idea that with a multi floor townhome, you need to have a bathroom on each level and that does go against the Slow Home ideas of simplicity and lightness.

  • nicole

    James living
    http://www.jamesliving.com/pdf/5143_CDC_townhouses.pdf
    As posted by Terri

    Bathrooms are a good size, not oversized.
    Unfortunately the access for the powder room is directly off of the kitchen. (not so private location of the home)
    Vanities are large enough that you could get some drawer storage
    Feel that this is an appropriate number of baths for this place.

  • Franco

    Wedgewood in North Vancouver-Belcarra
    Bathrooms are a good size and for the most part well organized, they even managed to get a powder room on the main level. The powder room opens off to the side of the dining area, so overall here’s an example of well done bathrooms in a townhouse project
    http://www.polyhomes.com/images/Floorplans/Wedgewood_INSERTS_CLR_Feb11%204.pdf

    In contrast, in the same development, the Cove model has a crammed bathroom on the lower area that also houses laundry, and the main floor powder room is off stairs. I feel they tried to put too many bathrooms in this plan. Storage is also a bit of an issue in the upper bedroom bathrooms.
    http://www.polyhomes.com/images/Floorplans/Wedgewood_INSERTS_CLR_Feb11%205.pdf

  • sdokter

    [img]vancouvertownhomeavondale.jpg[/img]

    This floor plan is located in the Avondale area in Vancouver. It is an example of a bad bathroom design and placement.It has the guest bathroom in the basement, which I find to be inconvenient. It seems more approriate to have the guest bathroom on the main floor as opposed to the bottom floor.

  • Terri

    Nicole,
    I don’t remember how I rated the bathrooms in that James Living unit, but I do remember thinking that the people at the breakfast bar had a good view of the toilet–not exactly great for morning digestion!

  • Terri

    BradW & Matthew;

    Here’s where I get on my soapbox (or my throne!) in defense of the powder room. Yes, I guess you could say that a toilet and sink and their plumbing is added cost, but in the overall cost of a home, is it really all that expensive or wasteful? I would rate the outdoor fireplace or huge TVs in a much higher energy consumption/high throwout cost to the life of a home, and these seem to becoming more and more the norm these days. I’ve also known people that had to sell their townhouse because they just couldn’t take the hassle of going up or down to get to a bathroom all the time. Maybe the biggest complaint we should be launching against the townhouse is their ridiculously narrow footprints; afterall a powder room needs only 3 ft of width and either 5 or 7 ft. in length, depending on access.
    Okay, I’m off now. ;)

  • Amanda

    http://adera.com/properties/brownstones/
    I think that the bathroom on the main level is a good size and in an appropriate location as it opens to the stairs. The door is also in a good location so that you can get into the bathroom without walking into the toilet. The top floor’s bathroom is a good size and has sufficient counter space, and there are two doors which create a circulation between the bath and sink. This is ok, however, there is only on bathroom on this floor and three bedrooms. I think another bathroom is needed.

  • Terri

    The Spyglass Townhouse I reviewed yesterday had its powder room off the kitchen, but it is removed somewhat because of a short hall and broom closet, so I think it’s okay.
    http://www.polyhomes.com/images/Floorplans/Spyglass_PlanB.pdf

  • Kyle B

    http://www.polyhomes.com/images/Floorplans/Kensal_C.pdf
    My first example is good. The powder room is in a good location, tucked between the kitchen and living/dining and behind the coat/linen closet. All bathrooms are appropriately sized.

    http://www.polyhomes.com/images/Floorplans/Spyglass_Inserts_CLR_Final%204.pdf
    My second example is not good. The powder room is in a bad location, in sight of the kitchen.

  • BradW

    Terri,

    Matthew and I are not objecting to the guest bath as much as the design consequences when one is added without though or appropriate space. Earlier, sdokter posted a plan complaining about the bathroom in the basement insisting that it would have been better placed on the main floor. I looked at the floor plan and really there is no viable place on the main floor so I disagree with sdokter and actually think his post is a good example of townhome bathrooms.

    In the housing market these days the number and size of bathrooms is getting ridiculous. And people are conditioned to expect more and more. First time home buyers expect a master ensuite. How could we possibly make do without two sinks? Even in the design exercises slow home contributors are adding guest baths even when not called for. Crazy.

  • MollyK

    Afternoon BradW,
    Thanks for the welcome back yesterday. I’ve been following the conversation about the guest bath in townhomes. It has taken me a while to accept the absence of a powder room on the main living floor in townhomes. But I agree in most cases the townhouse just can’t accomodate a well-placed half bath. When I saw the redesign project this week the very first thing I said to myself was…”I’m not going to try to fit a powder room in the floorplan.” It made the possibilities more “doable” without it.

  • Tayler

    [img]carringtong.jpg[/img]

    Look at Carrington G http://www.carringtonliving.com/floorplans.html attached. The placement of the bathroom is good, as is the size, however, my main concern is the placement of the door. It swing open in the most of spots. It seems to me that sliding door may have been a better idea? Also a main floor guest bathroom would have been nice.

  • Ashley P

    [img]1_bathroom.jpg[/img]

    Modena Floor Plan

    I do not think this is a very well planned bathroom for several reasons. It doesn’t make logical sense to have the bathtub before the toilet in relation to the master bedroom. The person living here would already have to walk through the closet to get to the bathroom I just think that extra stretch is unnecessary and would be frustrating in the mornings. Also having all the vanities lined up against the same wall takes up a lot of space and in a small apartment like this, space is limited and should be rationed. I also would prefer to see more counter space especially in such a large bathroom. The door to this bathroom also opens right into the kitchen which seems to be very common but as John said not ideal.

  • Tayler

    Just a comment- I’ve been to many small townhomes in Calgary where a half bathroom is directly off the entry. I guess I’ve just considered this to be normal and not an issue. Why has this become such a norm?

  • Grace Coulter

    http://www.sunsetgrove.ca/pdf/floorplans_garden/planC-C2.pdf

    I think this floor plan treats the bathrooms interestingly but not necessarily poorly. The master bedroom is on the main floor, with an well size bathroom accessed through the walk in closet ( I personally don’t like to access a bathroom in this fashion). The public/main bathroom is upstairs. Persoanlly I am not sure how I fdeel about this? It is shared with the “second master bedroom” which is lcaoted across the hall. While I think the bathrooms themselves are reasonable if a bit large, I am on the fence whether it is acceptable to have the bathroom off the main floor? If I were going to venture an opinion, I would say this example is acceptable. Thoughts?

  • Matthew North

    Hi Slow Homers – really interesting discussion about guest baths. I should tell everyone that John and I have been having this discussion in the the context of the work that we do over in housebrand and we have often thought that in a redefined and not too distant future -that the idea of a guest bathroom might be eliminated from both an environmental point of view – water usage, cost of fixtures, cost of finishes etc. and a spatial/ lifestyle point of view – do we really need this? do we need to allocate the space? the expense? My question is whether or not the guest bath will spawn into future floor plans or is it on the chopping block? Historically, the guest bath emerged as a standard room in the 1960′s and has since grown into the opulent and over designed feature that it is today. But is this on the way out as we trim out the excesses and have a closer look at how we are spending our money and using our spaces?

  • Andrew

    [img]screenshot20100715at3.02.10pm.png[/img]

    Here is an example of a townhouse that I believe has good bathrooms. I think the powder room is quite private as well as accessible and I also think the irregular/non-standard layout of the master ensuite works well. The toilet and bath fit nicely into this irregularly shaped room and I like the partition between the standing shower and the toilet. I have seen in some newer houses in Calgary where the toilet in the ensuite bathroom actually has it’s own door and becomes its own tiny room, which can be awkward and feel almost claustrophobic when inside. But here it is nice to see the toilet tucked behind a partition where it is not on display but also not sealed off from the rest of the bathroom.
    http://storage.ubertor.com/cl2074/listing/Listing_96_extra/5342.pdf

    And you raise a very interesting point, Matthew. I have seen some plans, particularly in smaller townhouses and apartments, where the guest bath feels entirely unnecessary and takes up valuable space. I have never really thought about it before, but it’s a little absurd that we have come to expect a bathroom on every floor in most homes. I would image that many home owners would welcome the elimination of the guest bath in favour of travelling up a flight of stairs or walking a few more meters in order to access a bathroom. This would certainly save on expenses and resources, as mentioned.

  • Jamie L

    [img]3_floorplan.jpg[/img]

    This is a floor plan Ac from http://www.yorkliving.ca/floorplan.php
    I think this town house has an example of bad bathroom. Powder room on the second floor located in such awkward place where inside of kitchen and right beside of the balcony. It would be better plan to relocate the bathroom to get more living space/connetion to the balcony from living room. Although I think the bathrooms on third floor are good examples, both bathrooms are well designed near to the bedrooms.

  • Terri

    Re: the powder room debate.
    I do agree that cramming a closet-sized half-bathroom into a public area is not very sensible. But I don’t agree that a powder room uses more water. Whether you go up to use it, or stay on the same floor, you’re still using the bathroom. Cost of finishes, however, is a very valid point–there’s a tendency to overdo bathrooms these days. (I’ve always been negative about the double sink in the master ensuite for this very reason.)

    What I’m advocating for is a modest “water closet” in a modest home that is more than 18 feet wide.

    I’m not sure the main floor half bath will be getting cut anytime soon, though. The general population is aging, and stairs become more and more an issue with age (not to mention other physical woes which require frequent bathroom trips).

  • Tayler

    Matthew,

    I really don’t think it’s something that should be eliminated. I’ve always felt awkward using a personal space that isn’t my own. I really feel like there should be a bathroom space designated for guests. I completely understand the environmental/space concerns but I’d prefer a guest bathroom…

  • BradW

    Grace – the ensuite in your post is badly designed – toilet directly in view – move the toilet to the right and shift the vanity – do not choose the optional door.

  • BradW

    Terri – the discussion assumes physical capability to climb stairs – if that is not possible then others options must be considered including handicap access…I am not against the guest bath but it must not compromise the kitchen, dining and living areas.

  • MollyK

    Matthew,
    I don’t think the powder room, water closet, guest bath, whatever you call it is headed for extinction. You can’t argue water usage because the same amount of water is used regardless of the number of bathrooms. You still flush the toilet whether it’s on the main floor or the 2nd floor.
    However, one could argue that nixing the powder room would reduce the cost of materials and (maybe) reduce the square footage for the floorplan.
    But I could counter that if the powder room is located directly below an upstairs bathroom then the difference in the cost of materials is negligible. Also, if the space is small (as Terri mentioned) and you install a low-flow toilet, I can’t see sensible individuals agreeing with someone trying to vilifying the powder room.

  • Terri

    BradW,
    I think we agree! :)
    I realize that I sound like a guest bathroom zealot or something, and I don’t even have one myself. (I’ve had one only once in 35 years, I realize, and it hasn’t caused me any hardship.) Living with stairs now, is another thing…damn knee*&%#@!

  • Terri

    Thanks, MollyK, for the clear-headed addition to my argument! The cost of materials is quite negligible, if planned correctly. Some people spend more on a granite countertop than the average low-flush toilet and pedestal sink.

  • Matthew North

    Even though I argued against it in the “In Detail” segment, maybe the answer is to have another look at guest bath design and try to come up with a modest “water closet” idea that is more space efficient. I am not a big fan of the “dumb bell” type of powder room – you know the ones that are two foot six to three feet wide and have the vanity at one end and the toilet at the other – but maybe there is a way of doing something clever in a space that is four foot six or so. I am also not sure that the argument that you use the same amount of water regardless of the number of bathrooms is completely true – I know that in LEED for homes, the number of bathrooms is considered a water usage issue. There is water used for cleaning them (at least I hope so!!) and there is also more plumbing lines, drains etc.

  • MollyK

    Matthew,
    I stand behind my argument about water usage. There may be more plumbing in the house but the added amount of water in the lines is negligible. Consider the math…8 people use roughly the same amount of water in one shower as in eight separate showers. What specifically is the “water usage issue” in LEED homes? I could see a conceptual concern that more bathrooms means the occupants are less aware of how long they shower since there isn’t someone banging on the bathroom door. Realistically, that would lead to unnecessary water usage.

    BTW, I must laugh at your referral to the cleaning issue…I hope someone is cleaning all those bathrooms.

  • Terri

    [img]duplex.jpg[/img]

    Matthew,
    I got to thinking about that single powder room I once lived with for less than a year, and I realized it was in a three-level duplex. It had that “dumb bell” type of arrangement that you don’t like– off a hall, which ran from front to back. It’s been a long time, but I seem to remember that the vanity was slightly tucked under the staircase–not full height ceiling above it– and it was under the main bath which was located at the top of the stairs. I’ve sketched this, to illustrate. Sorry it’s so rough, done in a hurry.

    But what I realized when sketching is that the hall would now be removed for the open-plan concept living. And once it is… no more privacy. So…now I’m thinking that maybe those powder rooms that are on a landing en route to another floor might solve the privacy and space issue the best(also less stairs). It is a problem to make the room separate when the main living space is open.

  • Terri

    As for cleaning…I might actually clean more often because of guests using the main bathroom too (non-toxic, biodegradable product, of course). :D

  • ReneP

    Richards – http://www.richardsliving.com/#plans
    TH8 -THE- 1st floor -2 bedroom townhome with 1180 sq ft. (Sorry everyone for this link – not easy to navigate to with one click as the URL leads to a flash player)
    This is good bathroom design I think – the guest bath is close to the entrance, and tucked away from the kitchen with some privacy. Upstairs the bathrooms are well proportioned and do not waste space- although the family bathroom seems to lack storage space (as does the ensuite – but this is excusable since there is the walk-in closet right outside its pocket doors)

    My pick for bad bathroom design goes to:
    http://www.modaliving.com/media/pdf/Moda%20Plan-b.pdf
    (better link :)
    A townhouse I reviewed yesterday Moda Plan B – Slow score 11/20- no powder room (even though I take it from the discussion on this thread that this may be considered a ‘good feature’ in townhomes); the family bath is crowded while the ensuite flagrantly wastes space – shower and bathtub.

  • Kcull

    Having the main floor bathrooms off of the kitchen is not only esthetically displeasing but it is also a definite health concern. It is no secret that the bathroom contains much of the germ concentration in a house therefor it should be located at an appropriate distance away from the food preparation area. Also, it is ideal to put the appropriate number of bathrooms in the townhouse that corresponds to the square footage. Although it seems like a no-brainier, as Matthew mentioned, often too many or too little bathrooms are integrated into town homes.

  • JPod

    http://www.thind.ca/thescena/The_Scena_Mezzanine_Ground_Level_Units.pdf

    Unit 112

    The bathroom placement here seems to be OK. They are an appropriate size and have a decent layout. There is no washroom on the main living level, the main washroom is on the second level. The washrooms are located in rather private areas. I think that this is a good example of bathroom planning in a town home.

    Though many would disagree with me, and this is possibly a personal preference, but having a washroom or “powder room” on the main living area is a positive. But again, that is most likely a personal preference.

  • bstone52

    [img]bathroomjpeg.jpg[/img]

    http://www.vistaplaceliving.ca/pdf/floorplans_WEST/VPW-M.pdf

    I think this is a good example of bathroom placement; both are separated from the communal living areas and the kitchen. The main bathroom has good access and privacy for the secondary bedroom and also has good access as a guest bathroom, again with good privacy and separation from main living spaces. Both have a good amount of storage and no feature is over exaggerated. 2 bathrooms is a good amount for this plan, there are 2 bedrooms and a large amount of living space, able to accommodate a large amount of guests. Privacy is exceptional in this layout.

  • Dan M

    http://www.sageliving.ca/_pdf/Sage_Floorplans.pdf
    looking at the sage luxury townhome posted by Braden
    rated 20/20, there are good and bad bathrooms here
    The upper floor bathroom is nicely situated, the laundry is just outside and everything is logical and proportional. The master bath is also nicely proportioned and incorporates the shower well.
    The main floor/guest bath is another story… the door opens into the room, blocking the sink due to the size, as well it opens into the kitchen, so from the eating bar one can look into it. The door would have been better if moved to the northern wall of the bathroom.

  • Mid America Mom

    What a nice discussion! Some of you know I place priority on the living space as most waking hours for me and almost everyone I know is spent in that space. As this is the case I think there should be every effort made to include a guest bath. I have no interest for a guest or myself to have to go on a treasure hunt to find a bath. Now which door is it behind? Oh that is a closet, oops laundry, do I go up or down (would they mind I go searching their home?)- folks where is your bathroom?

    The “need” to have a master bath and a family bath on the same level I think is a worse problem. In a four bedroom I think you should have two baths. In a two bedroom it is wasteful but many times can be done well. A three bedroom is where I find the issue. Many times a second bath detracts from having all bedrooms and closets decently sized and designed. *It is harder to design one good family bath.* In these situations I advocate a segmented bath preferably with an entry from the master and another in the main hall. Two or more people can use the space at the same time and the masters :) of the house appreciate the special access.

    As for the location of a powder room. Being near the kitchen makes sense as that is where we have plumbing. There are times in which just placing the fixtures on another wall of the room would fix the view problem.

    Mid America Mom

  • Matthew North

    Molly K – I’m going to pull out my LEED manual to verify but I do know that a lot of the LEED points are granted (or declined) for water consumption – I’ll post the specifics tomorrow. I know that the way the plumbing lines are run is a big deal – they want the length of the runs to be minimized, the lines to be insulated etc. and this is much harder to achieve the more bathrooms there are. I will gather this up – this is really getting me thinking!!! Also, I truly hope that all those multiple, redundant town house bathrooms are fresh and clean at all times – even though the I know the truth and it grosses me out!

    Terri – I think your sketch is great – you are right – thinking about it now, the long hallway from front to back reminds me of the historical “Victorian” style infill houses you see a lot of in Toronto (not so many in Calgary) but with the elimination of the hallway in an open plan scheme, you are right, the powder room would be open to the main living space – producing that awkward bathroom to living space condition that we shun around here! Maybe open plan schemes and main floor powder rooms are mutually exclusive? To build on your point about placing the powder room on the stairs, I have seen some projects where the powder room is also down half a flight which also works well.

  • Mid America Mom

    Matthew- At first I disliked the notion of a stair landing bath. I am coming around but it depends.

    In a two story single family it just seems odd to me especially when there is duplicate living spaces on the main floor and a non existent foyer. I cannot recall which city but I recall seeing it being somewhat popular in one of them (Was it Dallas?)

    I understand not liking the view from eating or cooking areas to a bath. But citing living to bath view as bad? What is one to do in an open concept with a smaller footprint?

    Mid America Mom

  • Matthew North

    M.A.M. – are you saying that it is odd to not have a guest bath in a two storey house with multiple living spaces on the main floor? If yes, I would agree with you – that would seem like a miss to me as well. I don’t think it is ideal to have a view into the bathroom from any of the principal living spaces: kitchen, living or dining. At the very least – please try to not have a direct view of the toilet from these spaces! I need you to help me enforce this!

  • Mid America Mom

    Thank you for the prompt reply Matthew.

    Yes that is my sentiment on multiple living spaces on the main floor. Glad we agree. Oh yeah time to insert “DEATH to the LIVING ROOM!”

    No view from living or dining or kitchen into my slow home half bath. It is really quite a restraint. Experience with the slow home project so far I feel a large majority of the tested apartment and townhome units do not fit that criteria. Apartments are the worst and those that do not have this issue most likely require you to traverse through a bedroom.

    ****
    This weeks design project had three slow homers submitting a 1/2 bath. Jim Baer had three plans and they had an entryway location. Franco also did an entryway bath with the dumb bell configuration.

    In interior door swing to a 3*6 , in the middle, is harsh. For those I would love to see a pocket door. If I recall from a discussion with MollyK that outswing on a bathroom door is not a good? or desirable choice.

    ***
    Before I part a link to some unique bath hardware that I think would be great in such a bath (I did not even try to look at prices) http://www.homeworkshop.com/2009/08/23/designer-rods-unexpected-color-for-the-bath/
    :)

    Mid America Mom

  • JessicaC

    [img]bevelorangeopolis.jpg[/img]

    Powder room in the Bevel, posted by ‘orangeopolis’, is located in an alcove off the living room. Funny location, wasted space.

    In Avant Living’s plan, seen here… (sorry, can’t recall original posters moniker)… http://avantliving.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/WF-W1.pdf Good spot for the powder room on the main floor; “accessible, but private.”