Comparing Apt/Lofts In Chicago

John & Matthew you were right when you predicted that this week would be a toughy!
After careful review and deliberation, I agree with Matthew’s pick, the first unit ‘B2.’

After comparing the two units there are a few features of the first unit which ‘sell’ the unit for me: the first is the larger kitchen compared to B3. I think as a professional couple, it would be nice to have a larger kitchen area for both everyday cooking, but also for entertaining. Although the dining/living area is smaller in this unit, I like the flow of the entertaining area (down the midline of the plan) with the bedrooms on the ends. Along these lines of organization, in B3 I really didn’t like the bathroom view from the dining area and direct entry into the bedroom off the dining space. In B2 the entry into the Master suite enters into the closet area, and provides a bit of a noise and privacy buffer from the entertaining area.

The final feature that sold me on B2 was the organization and layout of the bathrooms. In the ensuite of B3 we have the ‘awkward’ enter into shower-then-tub floorplan, whereas the units are separate in B2. In the long run I think Charles and Barbara would get more use from the ensuite in B2 versus the one in B3.

Being that this a pre-sale condition, there are a few additional considerations that need to be made. The first obviously is that they/we need to consider their needs 2-3 years from now and not presently. Along these lines we need to predict and account for any lifestyle changes that may occur over the next few years…say for example their son does not move away to college, or their financial situation changes.

Buying for the future requires that we have some forethought and contingency plans in the works. It also suggests that we look not solely at the floorplan but the potential of the space. Being that this is a pre-sale condition some slight modifications in the plan may be made (i.e making the living/dining space slighter larger).

Similarly, buying an under-construction building requires that Charles and Barbara be open to some slight floorplan modifications which might occur as the building is built, due to structural or design changes during the building process.

I also agree with Matthew – and select unit 2FB for the clients.
_The mbr bedroom and washroom entries appear to be less noticeable. (not directly off of the dining / living)
_if the building is not yet under construction, maybe the clients can ask for the living / dining to be made larger (as there is a some space to spare in the ensuite / mbr).
_Things to consider – the view that they will have – will there be other high rises adjacent them?

MAM – yes – we will be releasing the complete report once we are done in Chicago in two weeks. We are currently planning to do a week of data review after we finish up with single family houses, so the findings of the Slow Home Reports will be discussed at this time.

I think my choice would have to be Unit B2. I’m really not a fan of the den space in B3 as it looks like it would be a bit dark and its location next to the laundry space is less than ideal. Since Charles and Barbara’s son will likely only be staying with them occassionally (summers, holidays, etc), the second bedroom could probably act as both a study and a bedroom. Charles and Barbara could turn this room into their workspace when their son isn’t their, instead of having the space go to waste for much of the year. Also, the laundry space is in a much better location in B2. With Unit B3, I would imagine that the den would automatically turn into a laundry space but in B2 the laundry space is more private and isolated. And overall I think I like the arrangment of the kitchen/dining/living space more in Unit B2 – this area in B3 is a little long a narrow.

I vote with John for B3 for two reasons.

First, the view. The online floorplans show that B3 faces east with views of Lincoln Park, Lake Michigan, and downtown. It’s the best view in the city, IMO. My friends live 2 blks away on the north edge of the park, and it’s spectacular. The park view is far superior to B2′s westerly view — nice sunsets but otherwise just city and suburbs sprawling into eternity.

Second, B3 has the larger living space. Its balcony is 10 sf larger, and it’s living/kitchen area is almost 100 sf larger, plus it has the den (not great but usable). This is a much better entertainment space. Given that other aspects of the plan are nearly equal, I’d encourage this couple, moving in from the burbs, to maximize their living space.

The more I look at these plans the more I see that I don’t like. At first glance I felt similar to John and Matthew that they were really good units. I have since decided that they do both have a number of issues. Let’s start with the B2:

First of all is the obvious problem for the dining room, which i a lost point for sure. The biggest problem with it however is that in reality it makes the living space less usable, and causes a lost point there as well. (Where would the TV go??) To me when I look at the requirements for the bathroom section it talks about the proper number considering the size of the house, and whether or not it is “Green” 2.5 baths is overkill for an apartment. What Professional wants to clean 3 bathrooms?? Finally while I do not believe that a point should be taken off, I do not understand the wasted space in the master. Why there is a need for a 4×6 entrance space into the master is lost to me. If however you are going to have that space why not have the closet door swing into that empty space and make more usable space in the closet. All in all though i believe it more like a 17/20 with points lost for: Bathroom, Living, and Dining. The biggest upside is the Entry/Laundry, so just consider how many houses you have bought because of their awesome laundry/Entrances??

The B3 also has it’s problems, and originally I had it at 17/20 as well, but I have re thought that. The Dining (as it is shown on the plan) would not receive a point from me. The direct visual into both the bedroom as well and the 2nd bathroom, is a no-no. However when I considered the space I felt as though there is plenty of room to move the table slightly further away form the kitchen, taking away these bad visual orientations and leaves a more usable access everywhere. So I will award the point. The living is also much better, having the whole front of the unit, it allows for different furniture placements leaving room for a TV as well as beautiful views of the pond/lake. I also originally had taken off points for the bathrooms based on the visuals from the dining as well as the odd placement of the bath/shower in the master. With t5he movement of the dining and the realization that in reality most people like a quick rinse shower after a bath, this is perfect (No water all over the floor :) ). Having said that the study loses the point, and as per Matthew’s thought’s the entry/laundry is definitely nicer in the other apartment. The slow home score is a 19/20 which is higher that the B@ unit.

I would say the B# based on my comments earlier. I can see a higher upside to a couple of the rooms in the B2 but like I said before who buys a house based on how nice the entrance is? I would rather a better living/dining. I believe the couple would as well.

Now for a quick thought on the pre-buy. It essentially becomes a gamble. If you agree to the price three years before you can actually move in, you are taking the chance that the value will be just as high later. If the units aren’t selling well, there is a good chance the prices drop, or if the market is slower. However at this point in time, there is a good chance that the market will go up, in which case you were able to buy lower, and sell your house in the suburbs later, at a higher price. Either way it’s definitely an investment as well as a gamble.

B3 – view + extra sq ft. – also think the bonus den/flex space would come in handy as a place for computer/hobbies/storage.

In light of today’s discussion of PRESALE I looked at a high rise condo building that is being built across the street from us in Toronto – the Crystal Blu- http://www.crystalblucondos.com/flash/main.html with a more critical eye.

I had read that normally in Toronto 75% of a new condo building had to be presold before construction would begin. Rarely do you see them build then sell. So the ability to tour an actual unit, in the building, is out of the question. I know that with some projects you can go to a sales center where they build a model within that space. But it still can be not complete (ceiling heights come to mind). As I looked up at the building today I noticed the windows. When it comes to light that gets into the unit, size does matter. **** Is it normal to get the other drawings for a floor plan. Like the ones that give you the cross section with dimensions?**** I noticed that the lower section, with concrete, had square windows. They were not huge but what seemed worse is that the opening was NOT the same as the glazed window space. It was even smaller. At least 25% of that space was integral metal to the window! I pointed out that I hoped that they did not have units there but community space as it would be Horrible.

Mid America Mom

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Here is the Lofts at Roosevelt Collection whice located in convenient downtown location in the heart of the South Loop. Recommend to young people who enjoy the best of urban living.
1. Location = 0 not walkable
2. Environmental Performance = 3
3. Siting = 2
4. Organization = 2 well organized, it has good circulation kitchen-dining-living room.
5. Entry = 1 appropriable scale with closet and powder room near it
6. Indoor Living = 1 living room to the balcony although it has bad furnishing, it can be corrected by re-arranging it.
7. Outdoor Living = 1 wide and appropriate size of balcony
8. Kitchen = 0 it is directly open to the entry, although it has big windows and good circulation with the dining the location is not good.
9. Dining = 0 there is actually no well-difined dining space. it squeezed into the living and kitchen
10. Bedrooms = 1 good size bedrooms with bathrooms especially the masterbedroom has good access to the light
11. Bathrooms = 1
12. Study = 0 although it has a space for studying it doesnt have access to the natural light and located near the bathroom also to the entry, so I cannot give the point for it.
13. Laundry = 0 the location is really bad..it’s not located in the private area..it actually located in the entry.
14. Parking = 1

Total Score = 13

I would recommend Unit B3 for Charles and Barbara as I feel it’s better suited to the needs of a professional couple.

Firstly, I feel Unit B3 uses its space more appropriately than Unit B2. Having 2.5 baths in Unit B2 is excessive for a couple , however Unit B3 combines a guest bathroom with a potential ensuite for the guest bedroom when it is being used. As well, the the living space in Unit B2 is quite cramped between the living room and the dining space. The main design flaws apparent in Unit B3 are the Den, which is in an awkward location and lacks natural light, however, as John mentioned, this can be used as an entry way in practice which makes the entrance more comparable to the one in unit B2.

As well, I prefer the outdoor living space in Unit B3, especially how it’s connected to the living room and the master bathroom. I also liked the living room nook in Unit B3 as I feel it’s a great feature that would catch your eye as soon as you enter the room. Lastly, I feel the laundry area is superior in Unit B3, as its presence is less obvious compared to beside the powder room in Unit B2.

Additionally, as this would be a pre-sale condition, Charles and Barbara would have to consider completion dates and any sort of guarantee or compensation if this is not met, as this is especially important when selling another house. As well, they should consider the amount of flexibility, both in the layout and in finishing, and if any options are available to them. They should also consider if there is insurance on the property during construction and what role they would play in this, as well as financing options available for the balance as well as the amount of the deposit.

Unit B2
- Good sized bedrooms with great natural light
- Easily accessed/well proportioned outdoor living space
- Kitchen has ample workspace and triangle of appliances
- Powder room is far from living space which may lead to more use of the master bathroom and less to no use of this space
- Dining room located beside living rather than being segregated or behind the living space
- Master bathroom entry is quite large and may creates a little bit of wasted space

Unit B3
- Larger space
- Den right beside washer and dryer which could get frustrating and also lacks any natural light (doesn’t really count as a study)
- Stronger living/dining room space with great bay windows
- Good outdoor living area as well as bedrooms
- Good bathroom organization, location, number and size
- Ample work space for wash and dryer

Both scored a 19 on my Slow Tests but in the end I would suggest B3. My only real issue with this space would be the ‘study’ but overall both superb units!

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THis is an one-bedroom apartment in 1100 North Dearborn in Chicago, IL which offers residents the amenities of an excellent city location.
1. Location = 3 walkable Just steps away from shopping, dining and culture
2. Environmental Performance = 3
3. Siting = 0
4. Organization = 2 It has good connection between each spaces, well organized.
5. Entry = 1 it is appropriate size and has closet. Also it gives privacy to the living space.
6. Indoor Living = 0 All spaces have good access to the natural light except the kitchen is the lack of light.
7. Outdoor Living = 0 There is no balcony or outdoor living space.
9. Dining = 1 Well-defined and well-organized, good connection to the kitchen as well as the living room.
10. Bedrooms = 0 cannot believe how it locate the closet and the bathroom, those are totally open to the entry which gives no privacy at all. Who would like to see the closet even the bathroom when enter the room? The door should be open to the other direction to give them more privacy.
11. Bathrooms = 0 Again.. in order to get to the bathroom people have to pass through the closet..Whenever there is guest..it is really awkward them to use it. Totally inconvenient!
12. Study = 1 With the big living space and the huge windows it got point.
13. Laundry = 0
14. Parking = 1

Total Score = 12

MAM – you raise a really good point about pre-sales when you buy from a plan. I would ask the developer to see the construction drawings so I could review the sections and elevations of the building. This would provide insight into the window mullions and openers, the ceiling heights, possible issues with adjacency (like fire exits and elevators) and where any mechanical chases may be – sometimes they box them in within the unit and it is a shocker when you move in as the spaces are quite altered from the original plan – hence the disclaimer on the sales contract about dimensions that “may be altered.”

I’m curious about the building across the street from you….post some photos!

I would choose B3 mainly because it has a better dining area. Our clients are at the age where they are going to be possibly having grand children soon and need a place to host dinners and so on. B2 is too crammed for the dining space and it cuts into the living area which also makes circulation more difficult. I also like the entrance for B3 more. The closet is closer to the entrance. I like how the master bedroom opens to the deck as well. The two aspects that are worst than B2 are that the second bathroom opens into the dining area and the study has no natural light. But at least the study is open and not closed into an even darker room.

I think B2 is the best choice. When I initially looked at this at work early today I was set on B3. However, I thought about it all day (I know, dorky) and I really think B2 is the best choice and here is why:

1. The living area and kitchen area seems more open. If this is somewhere they want to settle down for a long time now that there son is moving out, I think this floorplan just works better for the future. I think about my grandparents in their condo and I know she likes to bake but also be able to talk to him and see the golf game while he watches from the couch. Not to stereotype ‘grandparents’… or anything. :)
2. The washer/dryer location. I don’t like how it opens into the den in B3.
3. The balcony location in B3 is to the side. I like it better in the centre as a more of part of the living room.
4. The den in B3 has no natural light.
5. What if something did go wrong and the son wanted to move back? At least he would have his own bathroom still and guests could have their own, too.

I feel like B3 has much more wasted space, especially around the den area and in the master bedroom.