Comparing Apt/Lofts In Denver

Posted on: April 20th, 2010 | 19 Comments

This is Day 91 of the Slow Home Project and we need you to join us in our quest to evaluate the design quality of houses in nine North American cities in nine months. This week we are analyzing apartment lofts in Denver and today we are asking everyone to continue analyzing projects. The more data we have, the better.

For today’s “Which House Should I Buy?” episode, we are comparing the design of two corner apartment units from the same complex to try to decide which would be the better real estate choice. The project is located in Denver, Colorado and is called “Frontview 40″ and we are happy to see that this project is very well designed. We have used the Slow Home test on the units and they have very similar score, so there is sure to be some debate as to which would be the better choice.

Frontview 40 – Unit C

The first unit is “Unit C” and is 1153 sq ft with two bedrooms and two baths. It received a Slow Home score of either 18 or 19 depending on how you would rate the laundry and dining spaces. Matthew thinks the laundry is in a bad location as there is a door conflict with the master bedroom door, but John thinks this is not really a problem and therefore should get the point on the test. John thinks the dining space is too small so he would not give the project a point for dining, but Matthew thinks this only is due to the fact that the furniture layout on the marketing brochure is not drawn very well. What do you think? We would like to hear how you would score this plan.

Frontview 40 – Unit D

The second unit is “Unit D” and is 1217 sq ft. Both John and Matthew think the siting is a problem because of its adjacency and view of the nearby highway. However, there is some debate as to whether or not the other unit is really any better – this would depend on the quality of the adjacent streetscape as it is unclear whether the view would be any better from the west. “Unit D” scores either 17 or 18 depending how you would rate the entry. Both John and Matthew feel the entry closet could be better designed and therefore did not award the point. The kitchen gets a point, but John and Matthew think it would be better still if the island shifted lower in the plan.

Now for the debate – Matthew chose “Unit C” as the best plan to buy, but John chose “Unit D”. We want to hear what you think. Who do you agree with? Is John just being contrary or does he have a legitimate argument to choose “Unit D”? Post your comments and lets have a discussion!

Also, please keep finding apartment/ loft projects in the Denver area and analyze them using the Slow Home test – we need you to find as many projects as you can! After you have scored a project, look on the Slow Home Project Google map to see your contribution to the Slow Home cause! Your entries will automatically appear on the map and in the comments section below.

Join us tomorrow for our first Design Project exercise in the Denver area!

  • James Murray Scott

    Two full baths for a two bedroom apartment is a waste of resources for the vast majority of us. I haven’t personally completed a time study on the use and congestion of home bathrooms but even if 3 people occupied this space would it really be necessary? Thousands of dollars are spent to provide for the octopus of plumbing in these units. Smart planning puts these features close together so they can minimize the cost of labour, materials and ultimately maintenance and energy.

    In the end though I feel unit D gets the better mark for having a better outdoor living area. Though adjacent to the parking it is bigger and possibly more accommodating.

  • MollyK

    I think the siting needs some consideration before I reveal my scores.
    With respect to Unit D, the site plan actually shows a parking lot between it and townhouses that back up to Bryant Street. It is the townhouses that look directly onto the highway to the west. They would block noise and the view of the highway, BUT it all depends on which floor you live on. The 3rd and 4th floor units may not benefit from the townhouse if it is only 2 stories high. Then there is the issue of having a parking lot adjacent to your unit (D).
    With respect to Unit C, it is adjacent to a buffer zone of trees to the east. This may work better (than unit D) unless your unit is high enough to look over the trees…in which case your closest view will be that of the roof tops of neighboring businesses.
    So to wrap it up…there are alot of factors to consider regarding the site category. You really need to walk the adjacent streets with “streetview” and you need to scan the area from satellite imagery well beyond the site plan to find other buildings/parking lots, etc., that may affect the view.

  • MollyK

    Slow Home Test results:
    Unit C–16
    Unit D–15
    *****
    -Both units lost siting points because of too many unknown siting variables that could negatively impact the livability.
    -Unit D lost organization because circulation felt cramped with location of entry closet that led to the cramped kitchen/living arrangement.
    -Unit D lost entry point…wasted space w/odd closet placement.
    -Both units lost dining point…I felt the 7’8″ dimension was potentially too cramped, depending on table size.
    -Unit C lost laundry point…sorry, John, but your criteria specifically requires “sufficient workspace in FRONT of the machine that does not conflict with other uses.” It doesn’t have sufficient space and it conflicts with the bathroom and bedroom entries.
    *****
    Unfortunately the scores were too close to dictate the winner so I had to bring in some personal judgement and chose Unit C.
    Although I had issues with the the unit beyond those specific to the Slow Home Test, such as, location of the Master walk-in closet next to the bedroom door; walking into the unit and looking down the hallway to the left; and the location/dimension of the dining area, I went with the lesser of 2 evils based on siting. I thought I’d take my chances with the tree line of Unit C over the parking lot/highway noise of Unit D.
    *****
    I wasn’t thrilled about either unit, especially based on siting. It really killed the reality of an easy choice, but that is what can happen with ‘reality’.

  • Paul C

    [img]c.jpg[/img][img]d.jpg[/img]

    Coin toss, however subject to pricing, I would choose Unit D. I also attempted to scale the spaces.
    My reasons (not in any particular order of importance):

    • Better laundry more storage
    • Larger entry and entry closet
    • “living/kitchen/dining area” may not feel as narrow as Unit C’s and emphasizes corner aspect better although the individual living space in C is very good dimensionally tough choice
    • Direct access to deck from dining and room for table to expand easily
    • Larger kitchen
    • Better master bath, although not crazy about walking through bath to get to closet.

    Tough choice.

  • MollyK

    Sorry, I think I have the east and west flipped with regard to siting. The highway borders the townhouses to the east and the trees border Unit C to the west. Apologize for the mix up.:(

  • Terri

    I agree with Matthew on this one and vote for Unit C. I like the openness of the entry–looking towards windows–much better than the long hall entry on D. The laundry seems like a minor point to me. (I don’t do the big washday thing,doing a load at a time as there’s not enough room on the clothesline for more than one load a day.) On the other hand, do we really need a whole little room to stand in just to do the wash? People often say double bathrooms are wasteful, but in my opinion, the separate laundry is just as much a waste of space. You can’t really store something in front of those machines, can you?

    Moving off my soapbox now…Unit D might be larger in size with a larger outdoor space, but it is also rather wasteful with two halls (one trying to do double duty as a desk/credenza vestibule) and a very long and awkward kitchen counter setup. I also dislike the master closet through the bathroom, which C managed to avoid.

  • Mid America Mom

    For me the living space was key. The quality of the outdoor space on either looked not so desirable on views. The bedrooms, closets and baths were similar.
    Both of these plans would be better served with a different kitchen configuration.

    Unit C’s living/dining space is about 16.5 by 18. The railroad car effect is not really strong due to that width and we have light in the back – the kitchen area. We could have gained at least 3 feet by going to an L shape and ditching the island giving us a space of 16.5 by 21. The living space has two good walls and then the windows. The dining space handles the circulation to the living and it can give the 3 feet since we have 16..

    Unit D ‘s kitchen layout and location causes issues. The living and dining space though it seems more spacious is too narrow. The space is around 11 by 19 BUT in the living area we have to give space to walk to the dining area and for the stools so really we have 8 feet to place a couch when a 3 seater usually is about 7. We also have only one solid wall to work with. If we move the island down then we have a large circle of wasted space at the junction of the hallways and then to the living space instead of wasted space off the dining area. A L configuration would help to make the living space wider. Flipping dining and living we still are narrow. If I was to redesign I would try to put a G shaped or double galley in the present dining area. The kitchen would become a space with a table and maybe toward the center a place for a workdesk. The living space would be wider and not have all that circulation.

    So my final choice would be C.
    Mid America Mom

  • Scott

    I’m going with Unit D for a couple of reasons. While the view of the highway isn’t as nice, I would rather have a view of the city and no direct west sunlight into my unit (especially a bedroom). The outdoor space is a bit bigger and I agree with John about possibly fitting the study into the kitchen to deal with that bit of leftover space. I need to have a work space to put the printer for the laptop! I personally don’t see that there is a huge issue with the extra hallway space.

  • Catherine Taney

    My favourite is Unit C. It simply has the better layout of the two. While the west sun might be a bit warm, the windows aren’t mainly oriented that way anyways, and the low-e windows will block a lot of heat gain. Yes the laundry isn’t very nice to use (as in it could be better), but that’s a minor setback as compared to wasted space.

  • BradW

    Interesting – the women like C while the guys like D. Obviously, the correct choice is D.

    Things not to like about C – entry in full view of kitchen, laundry conflict with bedroom, questionable dining space

    Things not to like about D – the entry closet (easily fixed by replacing study with closet)

    Siting, location and price are wildcards which could go mean C, D or neither. But on a room by room basis is D better. Guys win.

  • Mid America Mom

    Anyone post a plan today? Looks on the thin side, the counter seems to be stuck at yesterday.. maybe they are having issues?

    Mid America Mom

  • Matthew North

    Brad W – does my choice of “Unit C” imply that I am a woman?

  • Matthew North

    Molly K – your analysis of the units is really thorough and you bring up an excellent point about which floor the unit is on with respect to the siting points – this is something that we will definitely be adding to our discussion on the next episode of “Which house Should I Buy”. I also agree with you about the laundry point in Unit C – thanks for reinforcing my argument!

  • MollyK

    Matthew,
    You’re welcome. However, I am determined to use the Slow Home test as the tool it is intended to be. You are lucky it went in your favor this time.;);)
    *****
    As for BradW,
    I will not give you the satisfaction of a retort…(in my mind, I hope you end up on the 4th floor Unit D, with a view of the roof of every townhouse across a parking lot full of old beat-up Gremlins, as well as the opposite side of Bryant Street with empty, scrubby lots, AND a view of the major highway.) :):)
    If by some chance you are unfamiliar with a Gremlin, just google. I have a feeling since you are not hip then you are old enough to know about them, even living in Canada.;);)

  • Paul C

    Not to get too off topic, for I was not going to touch the gender reference but I can’t let slid the Gremlin bashing. A finer North American automobile there will never be, except maybe the Pacer ;-)

  • MollyK

    Paul C.,
    I’m chuckling so that I can’t find a reply to your comment, except to say that some of us are showing our age…me included. The Pacer…ahhh, yes, those were the good old days. :-)

  • TomE

    Ok since there is a bit of talk on the laundry rooms, and I always think we are cheating when do not consider things or functions which actually occur in a home. So where does the ironing board, get set up in these homes? Most people I know have them permanently set up in the basement laundry room. This appliance gets use every time the other two appliances are used so shouldn’t there be working space for this function?

    Matthew, I think all the women are just trying to get on your good side by voting for ‘C’

    Pacer, great out of the box thinking for its time, asymmetrical doors!!! For you younguns the passenger door was 4” longer than the drivers door.

    Chicago, is a long ways away but http://www.msichicago.org/whats-here/exhibits/smart-home/

  • Mid America Mom

    LOL
    *
    A neighbor down the street when I was growing up, had a gremlin which I think was yellow or orange. I tried to learn manual/stick on a concord (and could have contributed to it’s downfall!). Yes I did learn stick eventually…
    ***
    TomE – in my spacious ;) 2 bed apt. with a closet sized kitchen and no laundry – when we need it, the board is in the master. And thinking of Chicago they have a little subdivision of Lustron Homes in the North suburbs of the city (check them out – http://www.lustronpreservation.org/meet-the-lustrons)
    Mid America Mom

  • Mid America Mom

    *** Looking for a plan to help us with the project?***
    I have a few that have not yet been posted. I will be on for another 30 min or so and willing to pass a URL on to you. Just let me know in these comments.
    :)
    Mid America Mom