Comparing Townhomes in Philadelphia

Posted on: June 22nd, 2010 | 30 Comments

This is Day 154 of the Slow Home Project and we need you to join us in our quest to evaluate the design quality of houses in nine North American cities in nine months. This week we are working on townhomes in Philadelphia, and today we have another installment of Which House Should I Buy?

For today’s Design exercise, we need you to examine the floor plans of two different townhouse units from Philadelphia and let us know which one you think would be a better real estate purchase for our clients.

The clients today are Troy and Mildred and their two university-aged daughters. They currently live in a 3,000 sq ft single family home, but want to move to a smaller home in the inner city that is close to work and university.

They have narrowed their search down to two options and need us, the Slow Home viewers to help them make a choice between the two plans. The first is “Type B” in the “Nine” project. It is 1,920 sq ft and has 3 bedrooms, plus a study and 2.5 baths. It is located in the neighborhood called “Fishtown” and has a walk score of 83 out of 100.

The second option is the “B Major” unit in the “Bancroft Green” project and is 1,950 sq ft and also has 3 bedrooms and 2.5 baths. This project has a lot of green features and also has geothermal heating.

When you have studied the floor plans and made your choice as to which unit Troy and Mildred should buy we need you to post a comment on the site as to which unit you chose and why. Then watch John and Matthew review the project in the player below to see how they scored the plans and which unit they chose.

Join us tomorrow for our design project – we will be transforming a poorly designed townhouse plan from the Philadelphia area into a Slow Home!

  • BradW

    Between these two it is not even close – Type B.

    While B Major may have some nice green features, the floorplan looks as if it was designed by a drunken sailor – the powder room on the first floor is just horrible, bedrooms have more elbows than Chris Pronger.

    Frankly, I would keep looking…

  • autobrad

    I agree with Brad W, although I think the two are closer and the winner not so obvious. I chose Type B because the circulation of the bedrooms is poor (too congested) and there are a lot of ‘little’ issues like the fridge opens into the dining area and the sitting area seems like an afterthought. B Major has, overall better circulation and the features are ‘slower’ in their design.

    In the end I echo Brad’s thoughts..keep looking. I saw better units in my Phili search

  • Kadoman

    I chose The Nine.

    The Nine scored 16/20 and the Bancroft Green scored 15/20.

    However, despite the scores, I do not believe these two houses are equal, for these customers.

    The Nine is far superior as the rooms are shaped better, and there is an actual dedicated study. The study area is hugely important for the two university students. And it may even be large enough to have two people studying at once.

  • Mid America Mom

    I did not have to go far to decide. I glanced at the first floor of B Major and thought: Are you kidding?

    The Dining and Living is too tight and the 1/2 bath should not be there. The kitchen is the best part of that floor. For folks that lived in 3,000 feet to swallow that cramped space would be too much.

    **The Type B unit in the Nine Project would be my recommendation.** And at 379k versus 560K they would be able to afford a great interior designer and well deserved vacation :)

    Mid America Mom

  • bbhorner

    Type B at The Nine is my choice as well and to echo everyone else keep searching is my suggestion as well. I liked this plan better because it was better organized and had less place designated to circulation compared to the other plan. I also liked that the girls could have their own living space on entirely different floors. They could both have a study and live their lives without disturbing each other too much. However they would be giving up that rooftop patio which would be nice in the summer.

  • MarisaM

    I went with Type B as well for the clients. Both homes are not well-laid out and seem tight in certain spots. Although I did like Major B roof top patio for living space which was the only thing I like about that floor plan. Type B offered more in that the daughters could have separate living spaces from there parents for those late nights of studying and such.

    I would keep searching, these homes might be more suitable for a smaller family or a family at a different stage.

  • Cnick

    I would have to go with alot of the other posters and pick the Type B in “The Nine” project for my choice. Both bedrooms can fit a double bed which is more appropriate for university age girls compared to the single bed that one of the daughters would have to squeeze into in the B Major unit. The living and dining space also makes a lot more sense in that unit compared to the wasted “sitting area” in the B Major unit. That space would be hardly used because it is so small with one couch facing the powder room. Also, the family room was on a seperate level from the kitchen in that unit which would be a huge inconvenience when entertaining. I also liked the feature of the study in the Type B unit which would be a great work space for the two girls.

  • Allie G

    I would recommend the Type B floorplan as it’s got a lot more space and seems more suitable for a family with older children. I also agree that the layout in both units could be a whole lot better. I also agree that the buyers should keep looking – there are much better options out there, and three bedroom homes with 2.5 bathrooms are very common. I wouldn’t want to buy either homes.

  • Tiffany

    The “Type B” is my clear winner. I am not impressed by the living areas of either plan, but when it comes to the bedrooms my mind was made up. I remember when I still lived with my parents and was at university, my bedroom was my sanctuary and so very important to me. I my opinion the only thing that the “B major” has going for it is the roof top patio.

  • Murray

    Troy and Mildred should stay put until the girls are out of university and then start looking to downsize.
    I looked at the plans a number of times, and really can’t recommend either – too much wrong with both. One simple fact that really struck me is that either unit is only about 15/16 feet wide. For a family of four with two teenagers this would be close to my idea of hell on earth. No where to get away except for each to retreat to one or other “layer” of the house and hide away in the bedroom.

    If I absolutely had to, I would choose Type B – but, MAM, forget the interior designer and vacation – Mildred and Troy are going to have to drop big bucks to get the unfinished “cellar” properly insulated or their Philadelphia pheet will be phreezing.

  • BobC.

    I suppose you can loosely compare the designs, but type B is a full 9′ deeper than Bmajor, which probably made layout options a lot easier. Also, these homes are in very different neighborhoods. No one looking to buy in center city would consider fishtown. It is far more transitional and removed from the work centers and universities. They both look like cool designs considering the small footprints.

  • Hilda

    If I really have to chose, then Type B is the one…but that is only due to the family current lifestyle.
    Seriously, why did B Major put the master bedroom in the second floor, and the other rooms on third?? I pulled some crazy hours for university studies before and learned one golden rule: Family sleeps better, when you’re working a floor below them…at least when you have to pace or what not, you won’t bother anyone :)
    Aside from personal choice, Type B was chosen due to the design of the spaces. It seems to have a better circulation going on. However, the Cellar is cause for concern, so keep looking is probably the best thing to do.

  • hawerchuk#10

    @Brad W – more elbows than Chris Pronger….. you aren’t from Edmonton by chance??

    Ok so I am definitely sure that this family needs the Type B in the Nine project. it just seems so much conducive to the needs of the family. The lack of a dining area is a negative, however, the location and the size of the study is good. But I say, how many university students want to stay at home with their parents when they could stay at the library or on campus… overweighing the value of the study in my opinion.
    The bedrooms are a good size. I don’t see a focal point for the living area and no closet by the front door is an issue.
    This floor layout design is much better than the Bancroft Green, B Major for sure.

  • Alison G

    I am going with the majority and recommending Type B. I like Bmajor’s family room and rooftop patio … but its circulation and bedroom layout are awkward, especially considering the smaller bedrooms will double as study spaces. If these were located in Miami I may have voted differently, given the ample opportunities for sun/study time the rooftop patio would provide.

  • BradW

    hawerchuk#10 – not from Edmonton, just a reference to the current Philadelphia Flyers…I agree, not many university students want to live at home with the parents…the parents should consider an investment property for the girls and some roommates…after university is over, who knows where the girls will end up…time to cut the cord in Philly :)

  • Mid America Mom

    Murray :) Cellar (they still exist? My aunt literally has one – her “cold cellar” with a dirt floor for canning and storing them ). Aren’t these going for leed? I would hope they would have standards for basement conditions since they are popular…

    *BobC you sound familiar with the area. New to Slow Home?

    Mid America Mom

  • Grace Coulter

    Hello everyone,
    While I am a sucker for outdoor space and the second house”B-Major” boasts a fantastic roof space I am going to have to agree and give it to Type B. Personal space is so important for teenagers so having good bedrooms is critical! Furthermore as college students study space is optimal.

    I agree with the general crowd out there that neither is optimal for this family but for the intern I commend the idea of downsizing (sorta) and moving to a more sustainable way of living. The walkscore and sustainability features are so good to see. We need more houses with these factors in addition to good design!
    cheers,

  • Bell604

    I chose The Nine, as it seems to a better grasp of the amenities that a family of four will need with two university students. The Nine has a good bedroom layout, a study (which is necessary), and the option for solidarity when studying (bedroom walls are not connected so sound will be less of an issue). The powder room on the main floor is way to small, and the cellar seems under-utilized. However, since it is unfinished the family could renovate it to become a functional space.
    The biggest thing I didn’t like about the Bancroft project was the bedrooms. They seem oddly shaped and look like they would be uncomfortable to live in. The sitting room on the main floor is a big waste of space, and having the family room in the basement with the open ceiling makes it seem like its a pen at a zoo where people will come and watch you live your life (yuk).
    Both plans have very bad entries, and a general lack of outdoor living.

  • JPHH

    I would suggest the Nine project. The bedrooms are larger which is nice for college students to put a desk and study space. In the B Major project I feel that there is to much wasted space and poorly designed bedrooms. I am not sure where the students could study if they picked B Major.

  • D.Eng

    I like how both of the plans add in the detail such as rain barrel, vegetated roof and skylight. We need to see more of these in designs.

    I think Type B in The Nine would suit the family better. In B Major- it lost points in entry, powder washroom, and the tight dining room (basically the entire first floor).

    Type B would suit the university students because of the study space. The bedrooms do not lose space due to the circulation from the stairs as it is in B Major.

  • Dan M

    i like a lot of the feature they were trying to incorporate in bmajor, such as the rooftop patio, windows on 3 sides et al. However, type b would be the best overall for living space organizational quality. I also would have to agree with the other commentators that neither is truly ideal for the family, I second that they should invest in a second property for investment purposes closer to the girl’s university and let the girls manage it as a rental property to students, not only is this an income generator (allowing the couple to bank up money and go on vacation or possible depending on age retire early), but it would teach the girls valuable business and social skills that come out of a situation like this. After establishing the second rental property, then they should look at downsizing, and likely in a different area… and a different development that suits their needs appropriately.

  • Andrew

    I think I’ll have to just barely pick Type B over B major. Both have some great features, particularly the occupiable/green roof in B major, but I think the organization is better in Type B and overall the home is a bit more functional for a family of 4 including 2 university students. I don’t really like the entrance spaces for either townhome and one of the main reasons I chose Type B was because of the arrangement of B major’s first floor, which is very tight and a bit awkward. I’m not sue how functional the sitting area here would be and the kitchen counter interrupts the flow of this floor. Also, I think the bedrooms in Type B are better suited for this family than the bedrooms in B major, where the entire second floor is consumed by the master bedrooms and its supporting features. Ground-source heating and an occupiable roof are definitely great features in B major but in this case I would have to choose Type B.

  • PeterB

    Type B wins it for me. As one who knows about university aged kids well, sharing a bathroom and having different sized bedrooms is not even an option.

    The Type B unit has seperate bedrooms with their own bathrooms on seperate floors and that would make everybody happier in the long run.

  • hawerchuk#10

    @BradW – thought maybe the reference was coming from a place of bitterness thus the connection to the Oilers…
    I agree an investment property would the way to go. In close proximity to the University or post secondary institute the girls are attending. This could help even after the girls leave and be rental for future students and as mentioned an income (investment) property for equity purposes.

  • autobrad

    Hi All

    here is an interesting read about Slowhome

    http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/006947.html

  • frazer

    A quick comparison:

    The nine type B

    Scored a 17, lost points on entry, laundry, and dining room.
    Circulation in kitchen is a little cramped.
    No storage by entry

    Powder room is a lot better since the door does not directly face the room but there is a conflict of door swings…
    Better location for laundry but could use some more room and storage area
    Good circulation and overall organization. Less corridors formed despite having stairs along the edge of unit.
    Large study, allows for other uses such as a hobby room etc.

    Bancroft green

    Scored a 15. Lost points on circulation, indoor living, dining room, laundry, and entry.

    Whole second floor devoted to master bedroom and a bathroom, there is a lot of space wasted for circulation. If rearranged maybe it could have fit a study….
    Dining room is a little cramped…
    Enters directly into the living room, the whole feeling of arrival is interruption. Where does the TV go? For so much square footage a much better living room could be designed.
    The living room faces the powder room. Imagine being “watched” as you use the powder room. BAD!
    The family room is a dark basement hole….Ouch
    Pocket doors in every room? From my experience the hardware is always very awkward and flimsy…

    Good light in all the rooms, it is hard for the other unit to compete in this aspect.
    The rooftop terrace is really great along with the green roof. How many ugly service pipes/ventilation shafts will pierce the top of it though?

    Overall the Type 9 is the slower home and much better designed. They are both lacking some important aspects, especially good entries and laundry room designs. I would suggest the Type 9 since its primary living rooms are better overall and its circulation is much more efficient. Definitely the humbler unit though with less light and no rooftop terrace…. Tough pick but better design wins over fancy options.

  • SangeetaG

    Type B – scored 17 and B major scored 15.

    I would go with Type B, it is better designed than B major. It’s success as a slower home can be attributed to the organization in the home. There is minimal circulation on all floors, but especially on the top two floors. It lost points in the layout of the kitchen, little space for dining and the awkward bathrooms.

    The B major home simply loses a lot of space to circulation. The bedrooms on the top floors could really have been well designed. Seems like the designer has an obsession with changing the wall depths. The walls in the master bedroom really constrict the space within. The open to below feature serves no purpose, it simply takes away from potential space for the tight living area upon entry. It does have a nice green roof though scoring for outdoor space.

    All in all, Type B is a well designed home with some minor issues. It would have been good had an outdoor space been incorporated.

  • Neogi

    I would recommend the nine as it did score 15 while the other scored lower. I think that the layout for this unit is better suited for the cliental and the organizations for the bedrooms is more efficient. The main floor could use a little bit of renovation as the powder room is tiny and the main entry into the house spills into the principle living space. The kitchen is really dysfunctional in the plans tho, it could be reorganized to include a island to minimize the circulation space in the middle. However in the other unit, i really liked the basement, as it brought a lot of light in with the open space. The bathroom in the living space was a big mistake and i cant believe that they allowed that to even happen. The kitchen however was decent and designed fairly well. The master was corky with an odd shape. In the end i think the first unit is better suited for the family and i believe it would ease their transition from such a large space into a small one.

  • nicole

    I would recommend the nine. Overall, both need improvements, but the nine seems to be more ‘workable’.
    Kind of ironic that both options are offering sustainable solutions, yet the design is terrible.

  • Jessica

    I’m really torn, because I feel that ‘Type B’ is the “slower” unit, and ‘B Major’ has some plan issues, but ‘B Major’ has a major asset in its rooftop patio. Both plans give the girls adequate privacy, but B Major’s rooftop patio allows the family to access quality outdoor living within a relatively small footprint. I think this is crucial; therefore, I give ‘B Major’ my vote, in spite of some significant reservations.