Part 2 – 745 sqft and 845 sqft Condominiums, Pennsylvania

John,

Your suggested changes, while nice, do nothing for the front entry. The bathroom door now opens directly onto the dining room and still interferes with the laundry. The new front closet is small, remains directly in view of both the living/dining space and likely forces changes to electrical, plumbing and cabinetry work in the bathroom. In addition, removal of the existing bedroom wall will impact the floor, the ceiling and, probably, electrical work will be needed. The kitchen requires additional cabinets/millwork and a counter. The bedroom requires a new closet (perhaps the existing closet doors could be reused) and a new wall with, potentially, custom millwork including pocket doors for privacy. I think the scope of this renovation while not intended to be major turns out to be more than the average person will expect. So I always smile a little bit when an architect or real estate agent says something like “Don’t worry the changes are relatively minor..”.

Yesterday, Louis and Doug gave this unit a renovation and once again it seems impossible to make any meaningful change within a reasonable budget. They did manage to show the potential of the unit with an improved interior design.

The fact is these units have been poorly designed at the outset and, unfortunately, there is relatively little one can affordably do about it except have the good sense not to buy them in the first place.

John, I agree with Brad’s comments above regarding the costs involved in your renovation. Your changes don’t seem minor to me either.

Doug points out the problem of limited light to the kitchen, which I think is important. Do we really need to wake up right next to a window? Wouldn’t it be better to be able to sit near that window sometime during the day, or many times throughout?

These badly designed units would have to be vastly less expensive than others in the market to make purchasing either of them viable, since no matter what, substantial changes must be incorporated to make them liveable.

I actually have to disagree with Brad and Terri on this one — I think these are potentially worthwhile renovations for a unite that is well-located. If it’s far from work/transit, I’d keep looking, but if we’re operating under the assumption that this is a good location for the buyer’s life, I think the place has enough potential that it’s worth buying — especially since I’ll bet the odd layout would keep the price somewhat depressed.

Brad *is* correct that this could quite easily turn into a costly renovation, I don’t think it has to be that way. Take the long view: all that really *needs* to be done before moving in is relocating the closet and putting up either a screen or a (possibly basic) wall between the new bedroom and the living area. The kitchen island, shelves, even entry closet (via a freestanding wardrobe) can be handled with inexpensive IKEA units in the meantime, while the homeowner renovates on a schedule that better fits their life and wallet. After all, isn’t one of the ideas behind slow home that we live in one house for years, even decades? We don’t have to change everything overnight, and living in a place for a while can give you a good idea of what you want to do in the long run.

As to specific furnishings, I think I’d avoid putting a television in the bedroom: bedroom hygiene suggests that it be kept for sleeping and sex; other activities in there run the risk of throwing off your sleep/wake cycles. On the other side of that wall, I’d put a loveseat or small couch, with a flatscreen TV mounted opposite.

One last point, regarding light: I *do* think light in the bedroom is important; light is an important cue for our bodies that it’s time to wake up, and I think morning light streaming into the bedroom would be fantastic. As to light for the kitchen, the kitchen is the only room in my house where I turn lights on even during the day, because I want a more-uniform amount of light while I’m working in there. I don’t feel like a windowless kitchen would be a great hardship for me, as long as there is some kind of exhaust fan/hood available.

(John, I was pleasantly surprised when I loaded the site up this morning and saw that your web developers have the video working on iPhones — this means I can watch in the morning on my train commute and be ready to contribute off and on; I’ve been absent for a few months because of work demands, but I definitely missed the site.)

[img]wwwth4622.jpg[/img]

I like the radical repositioning of the bedroom!
If the bed is to be kept in the original spot, a giant cube with full size storage underneath might allow a better entryway, and more privacy for the bed, which can be tucked behind a raised bookshelf.

A very interesting discussion. Rarely does a segment generate so much debate.

In terms of costs,from my experience the changes that I am proposing would not be significant. The biggest cost would be the changes in the bathroom to accommodate the front hall closet.

I appreciate the concerns and agree with the criticism of my proposed changes – particularly the entry and the bathroom door opening into the dining room. Unlike the design projects we have done in the past, however, I tried to use this exercise to explore the idea of “what could be done to make this unit less bad or perhaps even acceptable for a modest amount of money”. This is in the spirit of John Y’s comment about making a problematic unit that is in a desirable location more livable.

At the end of the day, it is vitally important to have a frank discussion with either yourself or a potential purchase, about whether it is better to keep searching for another option or not. My sense is that despite the different renovations being suggestions, I would probably recommend that the buyers keep looking.

Jeanie,
Do you mean a lofted bed that is raised 5′-7′ above the ground? If there is enough ceiling height that could be quite effective.

john

can we have a discussion about required light and vent in bedrooms?

Jim,
The two issues you raise are actually linked.

In most jurisdiction a legally classified bedroom must have a minimum sized window. This is for egress in houses, and access to natural light and ventilation in both apartments and houses. I understand that some cities are changing their rules for this in high rise developments.

But there is another way that developers can get around this issue and build units that are too narrow and dark. Loft style open units typical skirt the requirement by defining one big room that has the bed plus kitchen, living and dining. Techinically there is a window in the room that contains the bed.

I would imagine that this is why there are no enclosed bedrooms with doors in these two units. Done well, the loft style unit can be great. Done badly the results can be grim.

In an open loft style plan I personally think that beds should be located close to a window but this is not a requirement. Others, Terri, would give preference to the kitchen or other living space.

To summarize, the biggest problems with this unit seem to be:
- a poor entry with no closet
- lack of privacy in the bedroom
- a lack of natural light to the bedroom if walled off
- possible code violations if bedroom is walled off
- blockage of natural light to the kitchen if bed is relocated to window
- awkward or tight living space if bed is relocated to window
- lack of storage space overall

I think that the lofty cube addresses these issues.
- the entry is enlarged and a generous closet is nearby
- the sleeping area gains privacy, yet is not blocked from ambient natural light or ventilation, and will not violate codes
- plenty of room is left for living space, allowing flexibility in furnishing
- overall storage is increased with the use of the room sized entry/bedroom closet

With only a small structural change, this might be a cost-effective solution.
I still wouldn’t want to buy either apartment, though!

-and avoids any costly structural changes.

I could not imagine living in these units until you all imaginatively reconfigured them.

Louis,

It can be done! Nice reworking of the apartment using movable elements with no structural change. I especially like the entry/office space – I would not have thought of that. The bed might be a little short at 6′ but that is really beside the point. Thanks…

Regarding natural light, I agree with JohnY: “light is an important cue for our bodies that it’s time to wake up, and I think morning light streaming into the bedroom would be fantastic.” I definitely want light in my bedroom, but it really does not have to be a full wall of glass. Even light through a transom might be sufficient. I want to be able to see outside in the rooms I’ll be spending my waking hours in.

Some of this, I guess, has to do with how much time you spend in the bedroom. Do you only sleep there? Or do you watch TV, read, study, work there? I tend to be only a sleep, nap, read to put me sleep person, very little of which takes place during daylight hours.

D’oh! I meant maybe LESS is more.

Paul C,
Very interesting how you’ve reconfigured the space. Extending the bath into the dark back space on the north wall and also using the companion back space on the south for utility space, yet maintaining some light for the bedroom is nice. I especially like your concept to put the bedroom at the back, freeing the window area for living, but maybe I wouldn’t waste that window area with a dining table, unless it’s doing double-duty as a desk space.

Working near a window is primary for me, as I spend so much of my waking time at a desk (light and ventilation lessen the burden). So, as much as I felt that Louis improved on John’s plan, I still would rather have the office space at the front. Just to add to the bedroom debate once more… I agree with Cat regarding waking to the light–low levels do the job. I’d love to have even that these days! (While it’s still dark at 7AM here in the north, we’re forced to awaken to darkness.)

Tom,
Thank you. I think a lot can be learned from other forms of “architecture” that deal with small spaces. Ship building is an excellent example…aircrafts
Terri,
Double duty is exactly what this unit is about and that approach can be a very effective way of making the most of smaller square footage. With the wireless technology these days and the compatibility of electronics I could see someone using the flat screen in the living as a pc. I would love a 52″ monitor. The extensive millwork wall could serve multiple functions.

Fast housing design, imhumbleo, tends to focus more on the marketing/wish list or the presumed “must have for resale purpose rooms” as opposed to good design. For example, how many two storey single detached homes of smaller square footage have three bedrooms where two, from a design and space planning perspective, could be so much better. Yet three bedrooms is a must have. To me, that approach, is quintessential fast housing. Quantity over quality, sensation over substance, hype over homes. I think it insults the homeowner frankly and that’s my soapbox for the month.

P.S. Thankfully we are over the hump, the days are getting longer.

Mid Mo,
The two sided fireplace is a nice feature. Alternatively you may want to consider flipping the bedroom and having the fireplace serve the living with some transoms for bedroom light.