Pradeep’s Remodel in India – Part 1

Posted on: July 4th, 2012 | 22 Comments

Pradeep from India has a question about the remodel of high-rise home.

“Hello John and Mathew, I watch your YouTube videos and am a fan of yours from India. I am hoping you can solve a dilemma of mine. I booked a 4-bedroom apartment, the construction of which will finish in a year. Now that I have become more familiar with the dimensions, I am really worried about how cramped it will be, and am trying to make changes.

The most important constraint is that the builder cannot change exteriors, such as window positions, or structural columns.

The apartment is a duplex on the top two floors. The original layout is a 4-bedroom +study with an open kitchen. The stairs is in the center of the house. The terrace is a private terrace, which is something we are excited about. We are a family of three- soon to be four, and my mother also stays with me. I want to change the interior layout so that rooms are more spacious. We can get rid of 1 bedroom so as to make room for a small formal living room that will give privacy to the rest of the house, plus a family room. The stairs as is is wasting too much space in the middle of the house. I want to change it so that it takes up less space, there is some visual communication between top & lower floors, and space underneath can be used for storage cabinets (optional), or change the rest of the layout around it. The bathrooms and bedrooms look very small. The kitchen could use more work surfaces.

I tried to modify the layout- I have attached the original layout, the position of beams as I remember them, and my modified layout as well. Columns are in solid black. Yellow rectangles in my drawing is for shelves/almirahs. The master bedroom & bathroom is bigger. I made the kitchen also slightly bigger, changed the dining to a banquette table, with a ‘coffee counter’ nearby.

I would like your expert opinion on the changes, and how the final layout can be improved. Kindly let me know if you are willing to consider this.

Thanks a lot,
Pradeep”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Srdan-Nagy/1384815509 Srdan Nagy

    Dear  Pradeep and  the rest of your family,An interesting project, took me some time to figure this out… 
    Let me just mention that it is great to see how influence of Charles Correa in Indian residential architecture is still strong (one can see it from some elements of the floor plan, position of the rooms…)
    I agree with all you wrote in your mail to J&M, bedrooms are small, bathrooms too,  kitchen dining – not that good… Unfortunately there are few issues for which I don’t see realistic and practical solutions: Bathrooms are the biggest problem, due to the structural elements of the building, there is no easy way to enlarge them, even if you enlarge them you take the space from the bedrooms that are also on a small side. So I tried to leave bedrooms and bathrooms as they are to avoid messing up rest of the floor plan. 
    The stairs remained in the same place, but redesigned so they take less space. You also gain a small double height space (communication with upper floor).  Beneath the stairs there is a storage room.
    Kitchen also remained in the same place, just redesigned. I added a utility room in place of existing guest bathroom (that is now on the other side of the staircase).
    On the upper floor I tried to create a decent master bedroom, space is tight so it is not ideal, but you gained an walk in close that is a big plus. 

    The only issue I have with this option is lack of storage at the entrance. Realistically you need at least a decent wardrobe for shoes, coats… now you have to use storage under the stairs that is not close enough to the entrance.   so to resolve that I did a “creative” solution… :) please see my next post… 
     
    SN

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Srdan-Nagy/1384815509 Srdan Nagy

    Ok, so here is my thoughts  regarding the problem of the entrance: There is no storage, no wardrobe. So you have to place one in the living room (that is not ideal) or underneath the stairs (that are too fare away from the entrance). 
    I noticed on the floor plan “key plan” of the whole floor of the building that you access this unit trough a “L” shape corridor used only by this unit. So here is my suggestion, ask the developer if they are willing to sell you that peace of corridor that only your unit will use it anyways, and move the entrance door to the beginning of that corridor. 
    So what you gain…. a tons of storage room, a wardrobe, place for hanging the coats, bench…. I think it is worth the effort and additional cost.
    SN

  • Matthew North

    Thank you SN for starting the ball rolling this week with your design ideas! I like your idea for expanding into the corridor to create the entry, but assuming it is not possible, I wonder if there is another option? The one thing that still bugs me about this plan is the location of the main floor bedroom – which I think technically is still considered the master – I am wondering if it could shift to the other side some how? I am thinking this out loud without actually putting pen to paper so feel free to prove me wrong! I also wonder if its possible to add an island or peninsula in the kitchen – still feels too open to me. I like what you did to the stair and can imagine it working well in three dimensions. I also like what you did upstairs – the creation of the walk in closet behind the head board of the bed in bedroom 2 is clever. This plan is tricky!

  • Clem

    Hi, Matthew
    I have found the conversation but there are no images of SNs drawings at this location. Am I not at the right point on your site? Thanks
    Clem

  • Pradeep Babu

     Thank you Srdan & Mathew!! Great start!
    Extension to the corridor won’t be possible, I am afraid. I might be able to move the front door a bit to the left. I am also afraid I can’t change the position of the door to the utility space/balcony next to current kitchen. (No changes to external looks or structural columns).
    SN: Yes, the bathrooms especially are painfully small.
    Interesting option to the stairs. In such a version, should I opt for a steel+wood one instead of a concrete one the builder can give?
    Attempt to give a pantry to the kitchen is appreciated. Nice thoughts on layout of family room.
    I am not sure we have the space for a walk-in closet, and will think about it.

    Here are 2 versions I had tried.
    v1. made the master bed & bath bigger, made the stairs smaller (the passage way is beneath 14-17th steps!), made the kitchen bigger & compromised on dining with a banquette dining +breakfast counter. I am misusing something in this drawing- I might be to extend the living room into the balcony, ie take away the wall, AFTER I am handed over the unit. (the builder can’t change the external plan now). But the plan might work even otherwise.
    Top floor has passageway merged into one bedroom.
    v2. Bottom floor now has family, dining & kitchen more closer together. There is room for a small pantry now. I am not sure about the formal living in v2, because there is only 1 window there now.
    top floor same.

    A last resort option is changing staircase to another position altogether! Have to keep beams between columns same I guess. Mathew, I have given beam positions via Facebook.
    Tricky plan, alright! Realized it only after watching SlowHome videos :). Alas, I already have signed the agreement and made some payments! I hope I can make it better with some adjustments.
    Looking forward to your thoughts!
    thanks!
    Pradeep

  • Pradeep Babu

     Hi Clem, the images appear as thumbnails below the posts. Thanks, PB

  • Pradeep Babu

     SN, your first take & my first take have similar living/family. The only difference is I moved the door about a meter to the left, creating a pocket to keep shoes outside (Indian custom!). I guess the storage options between rooms can double as a visual separation between formal living & bound-to-get-messy-with-kids family room :). I hear you regarding the entry space, but we will try staying within current sq.ft. first.
    The washbasins outside the bathrooms you see in my drawings are for hand-washing prior to meals (again, a local custom).
    The version I have for upstairs is still a bit awkward, may be I should simpify the NW bedroom even more as a rectangle by having the door to terrace go from near the stair landing. Couldn’t figure out any way to make upstair bathrooms bigger, so I guess I will go with them as they are, like you said.
    What else should we think about?
    Thanks.

  • Clem

    Hi Pradeep Babu, Thanks. The images really do help. The computer system I was using did not show thumbnails (wireless tablet – Apple software).  When I switched to hard wire desk computer (Microsoft software) the images are available.  Thanks

  • Clem

    Hi, Matthew
    Please ignore my question form last night about images. Pradeep Babu gave me the hint that I needed.  It was caused by difference in computer operating system. Once I changed to different computer I was able to see images.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Srdan-Nagy/1384815509 Srdan Nagy

    Pradeep,Thanks for the comments. Let me quickly answer your comments regarding my first design. 
    _I would still ask the developer regarding the hallway. You will gain a lot, storage for many things like bicycles, shoes, coats…. Furthermore, there is no changing of any load baring walls, so there is no reason (except legal) for developer not to do it. But anyways, it is not crucial for the rest of the design, it is just a bonus. 
    _regarding the stairs, make them form concrete, close in all the space beneath the stairs to gain the additional storage room. Make a railing from stainless steel or so….
    _walk in closet…. there is enough space for it. You can see it in my plan: wardrobe 60cm, then 93cm from the wardrobe to the wall. More then enough. And wardrobe is 200cm long. So why am I saying this, when I do houses for my clients i have a basic rule, minimum of 100 to 150 cm of wardrobe (lenghtwise) per person just for storage of clothes. At home my wife and I have only 180cm wardrobe, and it is barley enough space; but It also stops us from overshopping and that is great for our budget :-) …. Now back to your apartment, it is some 150m2 in size, but because of all the irregularities it is hard to fit all the necessary furniture in the bedrooms, I have seen you are also struggling with that problem. So my opinion is that for your bedroom a walk in closet is a must. 
    _All mentioned local customs taken into account. 
    _Your options are interesting, just be careful with stairs, you really need to know the exact height from floor to floor, and stair structure material of choice. 
    _One comment on moving the main floor bedroom (this is also answer to Matthew’s suggestion). some 40 to 50 years ago famous Indian architect Charles Correa developed his idea fore residential buildings in which he moved all utilitarian elements of apartment to the facade to act as a heat shield and protect the main living spaces from the heat. Permanence of that can still be seen in your original plan. In my plans I tried to respect that principle, so the main living space has a east – west orientation (shaded from the sun and great for cross ventilation). Bedroom on the main floor doesn’t have an ideal orientation but one can’t fix it all. 

    Now for my second option.
    I left many of the solutions from the first option, added local custom elements (washbasin is in a niche beneath the stairs), redesigned the kitchen, and moved some doors from the main floor guest bathroom. 
    This for me is a decent solution and I’ll stop here. 

    SN

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Srdan-Nagy/1384815509 Srdan Nagy

    just one small addition as Pradeep mentioned  ”ie take away the wall, AFTER I am handed over the unit” (you are talking just like some of my clients… :) love it) so going along those lines you should think about this option… 
    Extend the living room over the balcony! It adds necessary few cm so there is no conflict with the entrance door + you can have a bit larger living room furniture. 
    The best thing it is cheap! just move the whole window to where the fence is now, extend the floor and demolish few walls….  

    SN

  • Matthew North

    Hi Pradeep – I like your first plan a lot – I think you have vastly improved the layout of the kitchen and the bedroom location makes a lot of sense.  I still think the sitting room off the front door needs some help – is there a way to create a better sense of entry so you do not walk directly into the sitting room?

  • Matthew North

    That’s great, Clem! I am happy you are able to follow along.

  • Matthew North

    SN – good plan as well – the second floor is very efficient in terms of circulation. I really like the kitchen and dining spaces. Still wondering about “walking directly into the principal room” at the front door – what could be done to improve this? But overall…..very thoughtful and cost effective solutions.

  • Pradeep Babu

     SN: Many thanks for your kind efforts!
    _ Floor to floor height is 3m including top floor thickness. Worked out the stair dimensions so as to reach door height under 14th step, and the passageway between column & 13th step is 96.5cm wide.
    _ I like your kitchen & dining spaces, and top floor is much more efficiently used. The way you have laid out NW bedroom does give room for a full wall wardrobe in South wall of that bedroom- in case we want the space of walk-in closet to remain in the bedroom. That said I appreciate the thought you have put into giving storage options: your suggestions on pantry+ under-stair storage +entry +walk-in closet are appreciated.
    _ I understand your thoughts on layout & cross-ventilation.

    Will reflect on the plan more.
    Thanks a lot!

  • Pradeep Babu

     Hello Mathew, is this the plan you like? If so, I am not sure how to create a better sense of entry. Do you mean a small foyer?
    Thanks,
    Pradeep

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Srdan-Nagy/1384815509 Srdan Nagy

    Hi Matthew and  Pradeep, thank you for your great comments, I really appreciate it. One remark regarding the front entrance, I agree with Matthew, but couldn’t find a decent solution for the problem. Living room is not that large and every cm counts… I would like to see a solution for the problem. 
    Pradeep, I made a small sketch regarding the stairs and problem of walking underneath to access the kitchen.
    On your first plan form developer you have you have 20 rises (it makes 19 steps). With your note that height to upper floor is 300cm, it makes for a each rise of 15cm (same number of rises is in my plans). 
    If we take that a minimum height needed to pass underneath the stairs is 220cm (roughly height of standard door) you need to clear at least 16 steps (not 14). You must check if there are any legal regulations governing this issue. 
    In my country I would need to have a minimum height beneath the stairs of 240cm because it is part of a room, and not a doorway, so in my case I would need to clear 18 steps. 
    You can change the number of rises by increasing their height, what is maximum rise height in India, I don’t know, in my country it is 18cm for residential buildings. So I made you another sketch to show what difference it makes. 
    Now you have 17 rises (it makes for 16 steps) with height of 17,6cm each. 220 cm is cleared underneath step 14, and 240 underneath step 15….
    Back to my plan, if we use these higher rises you will gain some 30cm on the hallway between living room and kitchen, in my plans it is 110cm, so it will be some 140cm wide… 

    SN

  • Pradeep Babu

    You must be an architect & a good one. I like the attention to detail. I tried a dozen configurations, including a spiral staircase and
    a stair between new living & family before giving up because I couldn’t find a better one to the current version. One friend put the stairs in study but it turned out beams were in the way.
    The tread is 25.4 cm & rise is 17.6 to get a headroom of 213 cm in the passageway (accounting for slab thickess of staircase). I checked with a local architect & the rise & tread are okay legally.
    But, I didn’t think of your configuration. There are a lot of good points about it & I could even think of ways to play with the finish.
    _ The only change to your plan I could think was to shift the front door a bit to the left to get some essential separation of formal living from the family room.
    _ Any other change, e.g. I thought a bit about taking your layout for the rest of the house, giving a larger bathroom to the Master bedroom. However, all changes I could think of seem to affect all of the layout. What you have now seems to fit together. I think any change would demand different stairs & room positions.
    Good job, sir.
    thanks,
    Pradeep

  • Pradeep Babu

    Mathew,
    Sorry, I should have named my versions. Named them A&B now.
    A’s living/family is almost like Srdan’s excellent version, having more cross ventilation.
    B has different kitchen, pantry, dining, family, but the cross-ventilation & lighting might be less. Not sure.
    Which one’s entry should I modify ?
    Thanks,
    Pradeep

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Srdan-Nagy/1384815509 Srdan Nagy

    Hi  Pradeep, Yes I am an architect, young one to be precise… good one… hmmm….time will tell… :)Yes, plan is like that, you change one thin it messes up another… 
    I had some free time so I tried to fix some last details…. I shifted entrance doors by 40cm, added a freestanding unit, like a wardrobe (for storing keys, hanging clothes…) to make entry a bit separated from the rest of living space. I would make that small wardrobe some 150cm high, just to make a statement, but not to close of the space. You can also place some curtains to divide entry from smaller living space. As the door is moved by 40 cm to the left it created pocket on the hallway so you can keep your shoes there… according to your custom… 
    I also tried to fit stairs with 17.6cm rise, it worked OK, but it also shortened up the wall in the living room so TV had needed to be moved left… and then the whole living room ended up at the angle… horrible. So I stick with stairs with 15cm rise, at least they are more comfortable for young and old, and that makes a big difference.
    Those dashed lines near the stairs are just lines from walls on the upper floor marking the “open to above” space (those lines ware missing on my previous drawings. I also added a washer drier in the utility area and a curtain to close it of. You can fit a sliding doors or folding doors instead of a curtain….

    Again thanks for the lovely comments….

    SN

  • Pradeep Babu

     Dear Srdan,
    Thanks again!
    RE: stairs- I am fine with your dimensions- I made the rise 17.5 in my version to get door height by the 14th step, without too many treads in the turn, for the passageway beneath stairs. Your stairs don’t need it.

    Small changes I’d make:
    - I’d slightly tweak the entry to walk into the formal living as opposed to the family room, as in my version A.
    - A alternative to the walk-in closet: have a full-wall storage say, 20″ deep, built into the east wall of the NW bedroom. This’d have an integrated desk at the window & then shelves all around the window. Supplement with a deeper shelf, if needed, on the south wall. This’d leave some floor space free.
    - Bathroom are all small as in original. I understand there are limitations. Perhaps I should have a french window for the SW bedroom on the top floor & a hot tub on the terrace to make up! But, I digress :).

    Many thanks for your version. Glad to see plus points including:

    - minimal changes to the original plan. Might be easily implemented.

    - the stairs & double height section will work out well I imagine.

    - A welcome pantry!

    Thanks,
    Pradeep

  • Pradeep Babu

     SN, .How may I contact you?
    thanks,
    Pradeep