Slow Home Studio Live Workshop – Toronto 2nd Floor Redesign

Posted on: September 25th, 2010 | 16 Comments

For those of you who were unable to join us this morning, click on the player below to watch John and Matthew’s Design Workshop on the 2nd Floor of Mike’s home in Toronto.

  • Mike

    Many thanks to the “tsh” team for all your input and thoughts into this 2nd floor project.

    I thought it was me but this small place really is a challenge.
    I appreciate all your design ideas. You guys have given Me “food for thought”.

    I understand it is about making choices and compromises when space is limited.
    I am hoping to get a 2pc in the back bedroom (and perhaps a shower).
    I like the back as a master for noise reasons.

    I think there was some confusion about the stairs. The framing is to remain but the stairs themselves can have 3 winders at the top. Or the stairs can be a straight run also.

    Currently there is 11 feet from the back wall to the edge of the stairs. As reviewed in other projects I am not sure if it is better to leave as 1 main bath or try to fit a second one in somehow.

    Thanks
    Mike

  • Mid America Mom

    [img]toscdflr8.jpg[/img]

    You are welcome! My last stab…a hybrid plan with two baths, 2 bed, no desk.

    Good luck on all of it!

    Mid America Mom

  • Terri

    Mike,
    I’m curious about that measurement of 11 feet from the “back” wall to the stairs. According to my original plan there wasn’t quite this distance on either end of the stairwell, so I’m wondering which side of the house is considered “back.” Is it actually the non-street side?

  • BradW

    [img]shs1final.jpg[/img][img]shs2final.jpg[/img]

    Mike,

    I have one further option for you to consider.

    On the main floor, I thing the front entry designed by PaulC is an absolute no-brainer. It sets up front yard parking and provides much needed square footage for a closet and bench while retaining the period charm of a front porch. Beyond that, I do not think you could go wrong building John’s design, PaulC’s or my modification of PaulC’s design shown above (changes to the back wall are required).

    On the second floor, I liked John’s design with the single bathroom but that put the master in the front and required you to move a front window. As an alternative, the design here uses a winding stair allowing the master to be placed at the back with a smaller bedroom and den at the front. The bathroom in the middle is large enough that a second entry from the master is possible.

  • BradW

    Mike, the money saved by not putting in an extra washroom could be used for PV solar on the roof. This will be a nice selling feature as energy pricing continues to rise.

  • Terri

    Mike,

    I went off and measured the demo plan once more, allowing that 11 feet from the back wall to the stair well (it means we’ve got one more foot to work with at the back than we thought we did). I also measured the distance from the other wall to the stair well. M.A.M. and I had a chat about this measurement during the live session. I didn’t think it was quite 8 feet in length, which is required to install a tub and toilet along the wall (tub needs 5 and toilet 3). I still think I’m right about that measurement. So, after those two, I ended up with not quite 10 feet for the side stairwell, which may be correct, since there was originally an additional turn into the middle of the space we’re working with.

    Do these measurements “add up”? I hate to be such a stickler, but when it comes to actually putting in the bathroom fixtures and planning the staircase, these measurements will be the ultimate deciding factors.

  • Terri

    [img]toupperdemo.jpg[/img]

    Sorry, here’s the demo plan with the measurements.

  • Mike

    Hi Brad:
    Regarding the secondflr;
    Having a second bath is not the end of the world but…

    I like this last design, I came up with a similar layout late last night except I put a 2 pc pwdr (5ft wide by about 4 1/2 ft deep)in the back corner and dedicated the other 5ft + to the closet. The small existing window is frosted and is less than a foot away from the o/s wall.
    Looks good (if I do say so myself), it gets messed up when I try to add a shower. then the closet is useless and becomes more of a linen closet and the real closet has to be re-located to where the bath is in the middle and then it reduces the size of the room !ugh!

    If I were to work from home (as I do at his house) I prefer the small south front room as an office for the view and to keep an eye out for couriers or whom ever might come a knocking. I see good (and free) light coming into the stair well from this front window, so I would propose a half wall with glass and perhaps a full glass door (either hinged or slider).

    Regarding the main bath,

    can you give me dimensions please? the bathroom looks long enough (approx 8 ft?)to have toilet and sink side by side and the tub across the back wall. I tried this in my plan, I moved the bedroom door to where yours is and I added a longer closet in that room with a linen closet tacked on to the end facing the hall. Make sense?

    About the main flr;
    I am concerened about blocking the light from front to back with the tv wall?
    what do you think of making it a galley kitchen as you have it except extending the sink counter and the having a 2 ft wall at the end of the counter (LR side), incorporating the post and thus capping off the counter?

    In the dining side are those windows or sliding doors?

    thnx for your input.

    Hi Terri:
    the 11ft from the back wall is right to the edge of the stairs. If a wall goes up at the edge it will be reduced by 4.5″ to roughly 10′ 7″.
    The stair opening is 9ft and the distance from the edge of the stairs to the front room wall is 7′ 6″. The drawing is not accurate as there would be no landing , there are some steps missing in the image.
    There is no support post on the second floor to worry about. So I show a total length of 27′ 6″ +/- 1-2″ .

    A washroom at the front means addressing the drains in the basement also (which is a real pain) so I would prefer the washrooms at the back or center of the house.

    Thanx Mike

  • BradW

    [img]shs1final2.jpg[/img][img]shs2final2.jpg[/img]

    Mike,

    I modified the 1st and 2nd floor drawings to reflect your observations and provided dimensions for the bathroom (based on the scale provided by Slow Home). I agree completely with your thoughts regarding the den. I am not so sure about the second upstairs bathroom. I think one is enough but you are probably thinking resale. Is a second bath possible in the basement?

  • Mike

    thanks Brad

  • Terri

    [img]bradsplan.jpeg[/img]

    Mike,
    Thanks for those dimensions. So we have about 7 inches more for that back master bedroom space, if the stairs turn, and the front space is effectively 7 feet 1 1/2inches (taking off 4.5 for a wall at end of stair opening). This should be just enough for a den, especially if you use glass or no upper wall to close it in. I agree with you that the light coming in the front window toward the staircase is really nice right now with the upstairs gutted. That was why I originally wanted to put an open den space there.

    I think BradW has presented a very good option (his latest, above). I played a little with his plan yesterday. I turned the desk so that it’s easier to roll over and look out the window, and also because it’s bad feng shui to have your back to the door. ;) In the main bath, I didn’t like the toilet placement and wondered if it could be modified. I turned the bathtub,leaving about 34 inches from its edge to the wall across from it, which may be slightly under the usual 36 inches allowed in front of most bath fixtures; but because there is length here, it may not feel too cramped. There is the required distance between the end of the toilet and the vanity across. Better though, would be to move the adjoining front bedroom wall by four inches to offer a better bathroom width.

    Also, you mention a small frosted window that’s presently in a wall. Is that in this main bath area? It would be great to keep that opening for ventilation and light, even if you need new glazing.

  • BradW

    [img]shs1final3.jpg[/img]

    Mike, further to your earlier comments…you can easily rearrange the main bath and second bedroom closet as you suggest…the TV wall could be changed as you suggest – I was trying to give more privacy to the living space by adding the wall but…see attached drawing. Good luck.

  • Mike

    Hi Terri;

    -thanks for your suggestions.
    -the frosted glass is the small window at the back of the house (the old bath location).
    -having a bath in the center, there would be no natural light (unless I installed a skylight or sun tunnel).
    -interesting that you removed the bath in the master, would you only opt for 1 bath on the second flr? of this size house?

    Brad;

    thanks for the re-design

    You are right , in open concepts there needs to be some seperation, visually or physically.
    that is why at the end of the island where the post is, I was thinking to enclose the post and create a 2ft wall which would hide the kitchen somewhat from the front entrance view and house any light switches, central vac etc. I was also thinking to put in a sliding panel to close off the kitchen completely, it could be 2 panels, in front of each 2ft wing wall.

    regarding the 2nd floor; as a slow homer would you opt for 1 or 2 baths?

    thanks all
    Mike

  • Terri

    Hi Mike,

    I think I didn’t explain that plan I posted was simply a redo of BradW’s first plan posted here near the beginning, only I made a change to his main bathroom and den. I liked his second plan better though, as I do like the idea of a master bathroom, if it’s modest, as the one Brad drew is.

    As for whether or not two bathrooms is a “slow” concept…Well, we’ve had a lot of debate on this site on that point. There is the added cost of plumbing, venting, fixtures and so on. I’ve argued that plumbing fixtures generally last at least twenty-five years and won’t need replacing as often as soft furniture does. So allocating a space in the house for long-lasting elements is slower than using the space for almost anything else, which will need replacing sooner. Also, somehow it’s interpreted that having dual plumbing is going to waste more water, but that makes no sense since you can’t be in two showers at the same time. There’s a lesser argument that cleaning two bathrooms is labour-intensive and also environmentally bad because of cleaning agents. But I would argue that one bathroom used all the time by many usually needs cleaning more often anyway, so in the end it’s not a huge difference, and a person can used natural cleaning products.

    In your situation it will come down to two things: cost and preference. I prefer to have a washroom on the main level, preferably nearer to the entry. People who have young children usually fall into this category, because going up and down with a young one either in diapers or training is tiring, and often there are necessary “pit stops” before leaving. It doesn’t sound like this is your situation, though, so if you’re in fine physical form, the stairs won’t be a problem. For me, it’s a wrecked knee, which has made me more aware of aging joints in general. :)

  • Terri

    Mike,
    I’d like to add that if storage is important, the extra space for a master bathroom may be better used for a larger closet space…

  • S.N.

    [img]4_2.jpg[/img]

    Hello

    Sorry for double comment :(

    Here is my second option:
    I have moved the doors to see if a better space can be created. I cached on the floor plan of the whole house if that can be done.
    In the bathroom an awkward corner has emerged, so i placed a linen closet that opens to the hallway. This issue can also be resolved by placing a bathtub instead of a shower.
    Due to the lac of space in the bathroom I added a makeup table in the main space of the bedroom.

    S.N.